Name: Are micro-services the new way forward in banking?
Uploaded: 2022-05-25T12:28:09.285Z
Duration: 779.73
Description: Olivier Guillaumond discusses new ways of banking from super apps to digital innovations and how customers are adapting to the changes.

Olivier Hook.mp4

Are micro-services the new way forward in banking_.vtt

English 

{{00:00:00}}
Being transparent, having the
trust,   empowering people to stay

{{00:00:05}}
ahead , that's obviously what our
let's say white lines are right?

{{00:00:07}}
If you will.

{{00:00:08}}
Right.

{{00:00:08}}
So our purpose.

{{00:00:11}}
Obviously the past two years, we've
seen really an unprecedented change.

{{00:00:17}}
Brought about mostly
by the global pandemic.

{{00:00:19}}
And I'm wondering, you know, how has your
bank dealt with the challenge of that?

{{00:00:22}}
First of all, working from home, right?

{{00:00:25}}
So for most of us, I was really impressed
to see how quickly we could just, you

{{00:00:29}}
know, switch on, switch off and still
having the same level of quality to

{{00:00:33}}
service our customers and the speed.

{{00:00:35}}
So I think we all learned that it's
possible actually at scale to work

{{00:00:39}}
from home at least for a bit of time.

{{00:00:42}}
So that is more from an employee
standpoint, if you will, and

{{00:00:45}}
then from a customer standpoint.

{{00:00:46}}
Well, interesting to see that
you can still keep on the

{{00:00:48}}
same service level, right?

{{00:00:51}}
At the same time, the fact that we
were always say working from home,

{{00:00:54}}
or, you know, being, not in the office
accelerates the level of digitalisation

{{00:01:00}}
right if you will, so be on a, so the
number of,   let's say mobile contacts

{{00:01:03}}
just exploded through the roof.

{{00:01:05}}
So also changing the mind of a lot of
our people say, actually, things can

{{00:01:08}}
be done without touch or touchless
or   touch in a different way.

{{00:01:13}}
And that is something that
will remain to some extent.

{{00:01:15}}
So some things we will come back.

{{00:01:17}}
But a lot of these habits will actually
remain, which I think is further

{{00:01:22}}
acceleration to the whole digitisation
idea that, which was already there anyway.

{{00:01:25}}
Yeah.

{{00:01:26}}
So it was just an acceleration
in the same trend, if you will.

{{00:01:28}}
And has FinTech been an ally
or a rival in any of that?

{{00:01:32}}
Neither.

{{00:01:33}}
I mean for us, FinTech has been there
already before, so we didn't need a

{{00:01:37}}
pandemic to know that there is value
in partnering with fintechs or at

{{00:01:41}}
least in being very close to FinTech
and having an ecosystem around it.

{{00:01:44}}
So depending it was just a
combination of something which

{{00:01:47}}
was already existing, right?

{{00:01:48}}
So for us, FinTech is an ally
and a stimulation we partner

{{00:01:52}}
with FinTech has just mentioned.

{{00:01:53}}
We invest in 33 of them, partnering
with, you know, dozens of fintechs around

{{00:01:57}}
the world and we are creating our own.

{{00:01:59}}
So for us, it's really part of who we are.

{{00:02:01}}
And this ecosystem is for us very
important to, you know, to better service

{{00:02:05}}
our customers, to make sure that we have
this win-win-win situation where we as

{{00:02:10}}
an incumbent, we,   you know, making
sure that we are exposing , employees

{{00:02:15}}
of talents, providers, fintechs to
technology that is that combined the

{{00:02:18}}
great asset that we have to offer - our
expertise , our brands, our access to

{{00:02:23}}
customers, to all the great assets that
no question with the pandemic per se

{{00:02:28}}
but definitely FinTech being alive, for
everything that we, that we want to do.

{{00:02:32}}
Amazing.

{{00:02:33}}
And are the big banks generally
nimble or agile enough to keep up with

{{00:02:38}}
the pace of digital transformation?

{{00:02:41}}
So we are a large bank,   in many ways,
but I think it's all about the governance.

{{00:02:45}}
So first way is to believe.

{{00:02:46}}
So, do you realise the need to change?

{{00:02:49}}
I think that realisation was, you
know,  there since the start by ING.

{{00:02:52}}
When we started ING Direct 20 years ago,
we already wanted to be digital, right,

{{00:02:56}}
to be branchless  at least to start.

{{00:02:59}}
So I think that's really in our DNA.

{{00:03:00}}
So I think we didn't have to be convinced.

{{00:03:02}}
I think it's about adapting your speed.

{{00:03:04}}
I think that realisation,  you
know,   definitely came to ING a long

{{00:03:07}}
time ago and then about execution.

{{00:03:09}}
Right?

{{00:03:09}}
So having the ability to execute
and then governance,   and

{{00:03:12}}
steering   and culture is what will
make a large bank succeed, or not.

{{00:03:19}}
And that's the key to focus
at ING, to make sure that we

{{00:03:21}}
have DNA of changing fast.

{{00:03:22}}
I mean, that flexibility, we have aware.

{{00:03:25}}
So we rolled out the entire one way of
working globally, which is based on agile,

{{00:03:30}}
which is based on lean design thinking.

{{00:03:32}}
So for us to have the ability to
move fast and then where we move,

{{00:03:37}}
depending on the subject, durations
depends on market conditions.

{{00:03:40}}
Ecosystem play could be FinTech
could be big tech, could be another

{{00:03:44}}
industrial partners, but they're ready
to move fast, to stay curious and

{{00:03:47}}
to be structured, evidence-based so
that's really what for us are bottled

{{00:03:51}}
the, the habits that are really, you
know, genes in order to move up, to

{{00:03:55}}
move fast and execute on our strategy
that we have defined for ourselves.

{{00:03:58}}
Yeah, that's incredible.

{{00:04:00}}
So the needs and expectations of
customers are really changing.

{{00:04:03}}
And the younger generation, especially are
really used to sort of cherry picking very

{{00:04:07}}
specific services or products they want.

{{00:04:09}}
Financial ecosystems
really allow for that.

{{00:04:12}}
Is the kind of loyalty that banks are
used to sort of a thing of the past?

{{00:04:16}}
For us it's about trust because the
trust is for us the license to operate,

{{00:04:20}}
if someone lose trust, then of course
you will cherry pick you will switch.

{{00:04:24}}
Of course, like we all
do as a human being.

{{00:04:27}}
But as long as you are building the
trust and you keep on delivering value.

{{00:04:30}}
So not giving a reason to go elsewhere and
you keep your customers happy and engaged

{{00:04:36}}
and you keep on hearing, you know, what
they are looking for at the right price.

{{00:04:40}}
Well, then it's all about value.

{{00:04:42}}
So the perception of value is very
important for, for our customers

{{00:04:46}}
to stay loyal and making sure that
they believe in what is it that

{{00:04:50}}
we as ING are doing in the space.

{{00:04:51}}
So I think the cherry picking is
also more probably,   a consequence

{{00:04:58}}
of not providing the right value.

{{00:05:00}}
So what we're definitely aiming for is to
have that value mind customer centricity

{{00:05:05}}
and delivering consistently value.

{{00:05:06}}
So that basically people say,
well, why should I go elsewhere?

{{00:05:09}}
Because I'm very happy with what I get
with working with using ING services.

{{00:05:13}}
So that's, that's the way we  propose,
it goes via being transparent,

{{00:05:18}}
having the trust,  empowering
people to stay ahead of it.

{{00:05:22}}
That's obviously what are our,
let's say white line  if you will.

{{00:05:25}}
Right.

{{00:05:25}}
So our purpose, as long as we empower our
customers to stay a step ahead in their

{{00:05:29}}
life in business, and we're doing that
with the right quality of services, the

{{00:05:33}}
right speed of let's say delivering new
products services at the right price,

{{00:05:39}}
with the right quality, I think we hope
our customers  continue to be loyal.

{{00:05:43}}
Keeping value and you'll
keep your customers.

{{00:05:45}}
It's all about differentiating,
you know, what we call superior

{{00:05:47}}
differentiating experience, right?

{{00:05:48}}
So for us, that's definitely a
strategic objective next to, you know,

{{00:05:52}}
sustainability in  everything that
we do next to, and obviously enabling

{{00:05:56}}
through the lens of innovation,
digitisation, and employee   to their

{{00:06:02}}
full potential, et cetera, et cetera,
having the right tech platform underneath

{{00:06:05}}
those are enable us to really have

{{00:06:08}}
only the one goal is to provide
a superior customer experience.

{{00:06:10}}
And if we are successful at that, and
we're convinced that people will be

{{00:06:14}}
happy to continue to use our services.

{{00:06:15}}
Incredible So ultimately, do you think
that the traditional banks, neobanks

{{00:06:20}}
and apps will evolve to offer slightly
different versions of the same things?

{{00:06:23}}
Or will they take different
paths, offering different services

{{00:06:27}}
to very different customers?

{{00:06:30}}
I think it's going to be a mixture
of all combinations, right?

{{00:06:32}}
So what, what we see is different
ways of, let's say partnering, going

{{00:06:39}}
to market depending on the regions.

{{00:06:41}}
So if you look at Asia, you know,
this concept of super app that we see,

{{00:06:45}}
well, it's not something that's really
will work in Europe, for instance.

{{00:06:48}}
Right?

{{00:06:48}}
So it all depends on, you know,
cultural aspects of what you will see

{{00:06:51}}
so if you look at the globe you will
have different type of population,

{{00:06:55}}
different type of ecosystems.

{{00:06:57}}
so I don't think that will be
one way, but there will be a, you

{{00:07:00}}
know, a constellation of all those
different combinations, right?

{{00:07:02}}
So more and more, you see
collaboration between the ecosystems.

{{00:07:07}}
So having incumbents, you know,
partnering with FinTech to provide

{{00:07:12}}
very granular acquainted services
to their customers, right?

{{00:07:14}}
In a high level services
sometimes can be competition where

{{00:07:17}}
fintechs are very successful.

{{00:07:18}}
I will be competing against incumbents and
against big tech, et cetera, face-to-face.

{{00:07:23}}
Sometimes it will be, you know,   a,
you know, a company, whether it's

{{00:07:29}}
a FinTech or a non-Fintech, by the
way, I think very micro services

{{00:07:34}}
towards micro-segmentation right.

{{00:07:36}}
A specific type of population
with very specific segment.

{{00:07:39}}
So,   I'm pretty convinced there
will be all kinds of different

{{00:07:43}}
collaborations, not definitely

{{00:07:44}}
one way the world's going
to be ruled going forward.

{{00:07:47}}
And you actually mentioned,
you know, super apps.

{{00:07:50}}
So I'm curious, cause you said,
you know, that it probably won't

{{00:07:53}}
work for Europe and obviously super
apps is a massive topic around,

{{00:07:58}}
something that might become a trend.

{{00:08:00}}
Why is it that you think it, it
might not work for this market?

{{00:08:03}}
Some people have tried,   and I think
it's about habit of the customer.

{{00:08:07}}
I think you know, in Asia, the, let's
say the, the users were not used to have

{{00:08:17}}
credit cards and where in Europe, you
know, we, we already used to do business

{{00:08:23}}
directly with specific brands, we are
used to have a credit cards or payment

{{00:08:26}}
means in our back pocket, so for us to
say I'm going to  put everything into

{{00:08:30}}
one basket is something which I think is
counter-intuitive for the Western world,

{{00:08:35}}
if I may  summarise like this right.

{{00:08:37}}
Do people trust that you can do it all?

{{00:08:39}}
Are you relevant?

{{00:08:41}}
And do you have right to play in all
those verticals where it's mobility,

{{00:08:44}}
whether it's payment, whether it's
leisure, shopping et cetera, et cetera.

{{00:08:50}}
You know, I think in Europe over the
years, people have, you know, developed

{{00:08:54}}
in those verticals, very, very trusted
relationship, so difficult for one player,

{{00:08:58}}
whoever that is to really do it all.

{{00:09:01}}
And it's going to be interesting
to see also with what big sales,

{{00:09:04}}
big tech will try to do with that.

{{00:09:05}}
So the Apple or Google of this world,
you know, are they are moving into

{{00:09:08}}
the space, but very slowly, but
also here, what you see that they

{{00:09:12}}
are doing that via partnerships.

{{00:09:14}}
So not by themselves, but in partnership
with,  it's going to be a FinTech

{{00:09:17}}
or it could be another incumbent.

{{00:09:19}}
So if you look at Apple and
Goldman Sachs, well, those are

{{00:09:21}}
two large companies partnering.

{{00:09:24}}
So yeah, that's good.

{{00:09:26}}
I do not think there will be one
company going to rule the world by

{{00:09:28}}
themselves across all verticals.

{{00:09:30}}
Really, really interesting thoughts.

{{00:09:32}}
What are the main areas of
innovation focus in the coming years?

{{00:09:38}}
Good question.

{{00:09:39}}
What, what I think,   without taking
too much risk is that you mentioned a

{{00:09:48}}
pandemic, and I will say there is no
secret that the, the move to a more, more

{{00:09:53}}
and more digital services,   touchless
economy create humongous amount of data.

{{00:09:58}}
So number of digital data created
around the world is just craziness.

{{00:10:02}}
So that creates threat and opportunity.

{{00:10:05}}
So I'm pretty sure if, if we
start with that, we can already

{{00:10:08}}
predict what's gonna happen, right.

{{00:10:09}}
So more what it means.

{{00:10:10}}
So it means more data , if you
have the right consent, you can

{{00:10:14}}
start building more advanced AI
models on the back of those data.

{{00:10:17}}
Right?

{{00:10:18}}
So pretty much sure that the all
machine learning let's say data

{{00:10:23}}
driven paper pusher will continue
to be more personalised, more

{{00:10:28}}
relevant,   hyper-relevant to a wider
range of services and customers.

{{00:10:33}}
So that's a logical evolution on
the base of the amount of amount of

{{00:10:37}}
data that becomes available again
with the right consent, et cetera,

{{00:10:41}}
et cetera, and the right privacy.

{{00:10:43}}
On the back of which also more risk.

{{00:10:46}}
So probably more cybersecurity risk.

{{00:10:49}}
So also here, I do expect a lot
of services and exploration around

{{00:10:53}}
cyber risk, which come on the back of
those data becoming just everywhere.

{{00:10:58}}
So that's, to me, the circle,
seems a very logical one.

{{00:11:03}}
I think the more data happening,
the more people will be keen

{{00:11:07}}
to know about their privacy.

{{00:11:09}}
And also here, when you say I want
privacy, but I don't want to disclose, I

{{00:11:14}}
don't want to give too much of my personal
information to make sure I am private.

{{00:11:19}}
So here, I think there will
be a lot of work around what

{{00:11:23}}
we call zero knowledge proofs.

{{00:11:24}}
So how can you be private by design so
that you don't have to share everything

{{00:11:28}}
of yourself, still being a hundred percent
sure that you have access to that service.

{{00:11:32}}
So you can be above 18, yet without having
to disclose your age or your entire,

{{00:11:38}}
you know, profile information you have.

{{00:11:40}}
So I think there is plenty
of work to be done there.

{{00:11:43}}
And for which you need technology around,
you know,   anonymous AI or around,

{{00:11:49}}
DLT, which will be underpinning those
zero-knowledge proof  type of services.

{{00:11:54}}
There will be of course,
things around digital assets.

{{00:11:56}}
That's pretty clear,   at the moment
it's, it's more or less around, it's

{{00:12:01}}
still,  cryptocurrency, but there will
be probably a lot of more services

{{00:12:05}}
around, you know, NFTs, tokenisations,
probably decentralized finance will

{{00:12:10}}
be interesting to follow through,
underpinned by the same DLT technology,

{{00:12:14}}
but those use case will come in.

{{00:12:16}}
That's for sure.

{{00:12:17}}
I think digital currency will be very
interesting for a space to watch,  as

{{00:12:20}}
ING we are very much curious and active
in that space to really understand

{{00:12:25}}
how we want to position ourselves
in those trends, which are here.

{{00:12:29}}
And we'll further probably accelerate
in a, in a months and year to come.

{{00:12:33}}
So there's a bit of the examples.

{{00:12:35}}
I think that we can safely say that things
will be very active in the years to come.

{{00:12:38}}
Yeah.

{{00:12:39}}
Incredible.

{{00:12:40}}
Well, thank you so much
for speaking with us today.

{{00:12:42}}
It's been an absolute pleasure
just talking and covering a ton

{{00:12:45}}
of different conversations from
innovation to super apps and more,

{{00:12:49}}
really appreciate you coming down.

{{00:12:50}}
Thank you so much

{{00:12:51}}
Thank you so much for having me.

{{00:12:51}}
Thank you.

Being transparent, having the
trust,   empowering people to stay

ahead , that's obviously what our
let's say white lines are right?

Obviously the past two years, we've
seen really an unprecedented change.

Brought about mostly
by the global pandemic.

And I'm wondering, you know, how has your
bank dealt with the challenge of that?

So for most of us, I was really impressed
to see how quickly we could just, you

know, switch on, switch off and still
having the same level of quality to

So I think we all learned that it's
possible actually at scale to work

So that is more from an employee
standpoint, if you will, and

Well, interesting to see that
you can still keep on the

At the same time, the fact that we
were always say working from home,

or, you know, being, not in the office
accelerates the level of digitalisation

right if you will, so be on a, so the
number of,   let's say mobile contacts

So also changing the mind of a lot of
our people say, actually, things can

be done without touch or touchless
or   touch in a different way.

And that is something that
will remain to some extent.

But a lot of these habits will actually
remain, which I think is further

acceleration to the whole digitisation
idea that, which was already there anyway.

So it was just an acceleration
in the same trend, if you will.

And has FinTech been an ally
or a rival in any of that?

I mean for us, FinTech has been there
already before, so we didn't need a

pandemic to know that there is value
in partnering with fintechs or at

least in being very close to FinTech
and having an ecosystem around it.

So depending it was just a
combination of something which

So for us, FinTech is an ally
and a stimulation we partner

We invest in 33 of them, partnering
with, you know, dozens of fintechs around

So for us, it's really part of who we are.

And this ecosystem is for us very
important to, you know, to better service

our customers, to make sure that we have
this win-win-win situation where we as

an incumbent, we,   you know, making
sure that we are exposing , employees

of talents, providers, fintechs to
technology that is that combined the

great asset that we have to offer - our
expertise , our brands, our access to

customers, to all the great assets that
no question with the pandemic per se

but definitely FinTech being alive, for
everything that we, that we want to do.

And are the big banks generally
nimble or agile enough to keep up with

So we are a large bank,   in many ways,
but I think it's all about the governance.

I think that realisation was, you
know,  there since the start by ING.

When we started ING Direct 20 years ago,
we already wanted to be digital, right,

So I think we didn't have to be convinced.

I think that realisation,  you
know,   definitely came to ING a long

So having the ability to execute
and then governance,   and

steering   and culture is what will
make a large bank succeed, or not.

And that's the key to focus
at ING, to make sure that we

So we rolled out the entire one way of
working globally, which is based on agile,

So for us to have the ability to
move fast and then where we move,

depending on the subject, durations
depends on market conditions.

Ecosystem play could be FinTech
could be big tech, could be another

industrial partners, but they're ready
to move fast, to stay curious and

to be structured, evidence-based so
that's really what for us are bottled

the, the habits that are really, you
know, genes in order to move up, to

move fast and execute on our strategy
that we have defined for ourselves.

So the needs and expectations of
customers are really changing.

And the younger generation, especially are
really used to sort of cherry picking very

Financial ecosystems
really allow for that.

Is the kind of loyalty that banks are
used to sort of a thing of the past?

For us it's about trust because the
trust is for us the license to operate,

if someone lose trust, then of course
you will cherry pick you will switch.

Of course, like we all
do as a human being.

But as long as you are building the
trust and you keep on delivering value.

So not giving a reason to go elsewhere and
you keep your customers happy and engaged

and you keep on hearing, you know, what
they are looking for at the right price.

So the perception of value is very
important for, for our customers

to stay loyal and making sure that
they believe in what is it that

So I think the cherry picking is
also more probably,   a consequence

So what we're definitely aiming for is to
have that value mind customer centricity

So that basically people say,
well, why should I go elsewhere?

Because I'm very happy with what I get
with working with using ING services.

Trend

Olivier Guillaumond discusses new ways of banking from super apps to digital innovations and how customers are adapting to the changes.

Banking

Banking innovation

Digital banking

Machine Learning

Superapps

Innovation

Digital Transformation

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Olivier Guillaumond

Global Head of Innovation Labs and Fintechs

The pandemic proved how quickly the norm is changing and how quickly people adapt, both from an employee and customer standpoint.

Dealing with change 

The fintech industry is an ally for banks to stimulate technological partnerships and create a win-win scenario for both.

Ally or enemy 

In order for big banks to remain agile enough to respond to quickly changing trends, they need to realise the necessity of change, adapt their speed of execution, and improve their governance and cultural practices.

 Being agile enough

Young generations' loyalty is increasingly difficult to keep. It is common for them to switch between products and banks based on what is more convenient at the time. Guillaumond emphasises the perception of value and trust which transcend generations.

Changing expectations of the younger generation

Collaboration between ecosystems will be the future of the finance industry as different cultures or generations have different needs.  

What will financial institutions offer different?

It seems unlikely in Europe that one big company could dominate all verticals like the Asian super apps due to customer trust and expectations.

Could super apps conquer Europe? 

Data volume has grown dramatically as a result of the huge digital transformation around the globe. This vast data set will enable machine learning and AI to continue to grow and develop new applications.