Name: Chipper Cash at FinovateEurope 2024 - How Africa's growing middle-market is finding power in payments
Uploaded: 2024-04-11T11:14:12.149Z
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ENGLISH

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Hello, everybody, and welcome
to Finovate Europe 2024.

{{00:00:11}}
My name is Tyler Pathe.

{{00:00:12}}
I'm a reporter with Fintech Futures.

{{00:00:15}}
We're here at day two of the
event, and I'm very happy to be

{{00:00:20}}
joined by Brett Magrath, Chief
Product Officer of Chipper Cash.

{{00:00:24}}
Cool.

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Good to be here, man.

{{00:00:25}}
Yeah, thank you.

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Lovely to see you, Brett.

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How are you?

{{00:00:27}}
Yeah good Just Had our fireside
chat, so it was good fun.

{{00:00:32}}
How did it go?

{{00:00:34}}
All good, Yeah, nice to share some
experiences and views and opinions on

{{00:00:39}}
payments in Africa and FinTech in Africa.

{{00:00:42}}
So yeah, it was exciting.

{{00:00:43}}
That's really fantastic.

{{00:00:45}}
We're here to talk about ChippaCash.

{{00:00:48}}
Can you give us a little bit of insight
into what the FinTech is, please?

{{00:00:51}}
Yeah.

{{00:00:52}}
So as Chipper Cash, we are a
FinTech business focused on Africa.

{{00:00:56}}
We are licensed in a number of markets.

{{00:00:59}}
From Nigeria, Uganda,
Ghana, Rwanda, and Zambia.

{{00:01:03}}
Our head office is based in the U.

{{00:01:04}}
S.

{{00:01:05}}
We're also licensed in 40 states in the U.

{{00:01:07}}
S.

{{00:01:08}}
And we have almost two
kind of divisions, right?

{{00:01:11}}
So we've got our consumer side
of our business and what we

{{00:01:14}}
call Chipper for Business.

{{00:01:15}}
So as our consumers, We, at the
core, provide the ability to

{{00:01:19}}
move money into and out of the
countries that our customers are in.

{{00:01:24}}
And that could be in fiat rails,
it could be leveraging crypto,

{{00:01:27}}
it could be using card rails.

{{00:01:29}}
We have an investment component
that kind of looks at investing

{{00:01:34}}
in fractional US stocks.

{{00:01:35}}
It's also got a crypto component.

{{00:01:37}}
And then a spend aspect, which is
really around domestic marketplaces

{{00:01:41}}
and spending in country.

{{00:01:43}}
As well as accessing our US
dollar Visa card where you can

{{00:01:46}}
use that to spend as a consumer.

{{00:01:51}}
On the Chipper for Business side, we
obviously are building a whole lot of

{{00:01:55}}
payment rails for our consumer business.

{{00:01:58}}
And on the Chipper for Business side,
we're really looking to open up those

{{00:02:02}}
payment rails for companies in the
US or Europe or anywhere outside of

{{00:02:08}}
Africa that's looking for a payment
solution into or out of Africa.

{{00:02:13}}
So we enable disbursements and
collections across 40 countries in Africa.

{{00:02:19}}
If we are if you're a business
looking to send money into or get

{{00:02:23}}
money out of Africa we're looking
to provide that service for you.

{{00:02:27}}
That's really, fascinating.

{{00:02:29}}
You've got a very broad
sort of service suite.

{{00:02:32}}
I really, like that.

{{00:02:33}}
And, in a really interesting and
fascinating market like Africa.

{{00:02:37}}
Yeah.

{{00:02:38}}
From your standpoint then, what can
you tell us about the current FinTech

{{00:02:42}}
landscape across the continent?

{{00:02:44}}
Yeah.

{{00:02:45}}
Yeah I think there's been a lot of
investments into FinTech in Africa.

{{00:02:50}}
And I think that investment is
structured in a few tiers, right?

{{00:02:54}}
So the first tier is really the
foundational side which is building

{{00:02:58}}
a, an ability to identify a user.

{{00:03:01}}
So there's a lot of digital forms
of onboarding that we've seen

{{00:03:04}}
across FinTechs across the world.

{{00:03:06}}
So you need to make sure that
infrastructure is available in

{{00:03:09}}
Africa to facilitate those services.

{{00:03:11}}
So that's something that, that we spend
a lot of time with and are integrating

{{00:03:16}}
into different government databases such
that we can, identify and verify users.

{{00:03:21}}
The other side of that is then
the payment infrastructure.

{{00:03:23}}
So it's a lot of that
didn't exist historically.

{{00:03:26}}
So there's been a lot of money that's gone
into building out this infrastructure.

{{00:03:30}}
That's enabling real time payments and
collections across that infrastructure.

{{00:03:36}}
And yeah outside of that, there's been
a lot of work in the regulatory space

{{00:03:40}}
and all of those kind of funky things.

{{00:03:43}}
But yeah at the core, like I said,
that's like that foundational layer

{{00:03:47}}
that enables a lot of services to
then start plugging in on top of that.

{{00:03:52}}
So you're seeing a lot of
investments into quite creative

{{00:03:57}}
credit solutions that are using.

{{00:03:59}}
Credit data that previously didn't exist.

{{00:04:02}}
You're looking at things like what we
are offering in terms of connecting

{{00:04:06}}
African consumers to global services
that they previously didn't have.

{{00:04:10}}
I think it's quite an exciting space.

{{00:04:12}}
It's a massive, market.

{{00:04:15}}
And, there's a huge need for the
services that our companies are bringing.

{{00:04:19}}
So it's an interesting space
and time for the continent.

{{00:04:24}}
In terms of investment, I think
the continent is projected

{{00:04:27}}
to reach 65 billion by 2030.

{{00:04:31}}
So do you think it's an issue of financial
inclusion that it's looking to solve?

{{00:04:36}}
So I think a bit of both.

{{00:04:37}}
I think there is still a need
for more financial inclusion.

{{00:04:42}}
Unless everybody is included,
there's always a task to

{{00:04:45}}
drive financial inclusion.

{{00:04:47}}
But I think that mobile money has
facilitated quite a good role in domestic

{{00:04:51}}
financial inclusion in the continent.

{{00:04:54}}
As I said, until everyone has
access, we haven't reached that goal.

{{00:04:58}}
But where I think financial inclusion
starts coming in is why is it that

{{00:05:03}}
certain people living in London have
access to certain financial services

{{00:05:07}}
that grow their wealth that people
in Africa don't have access to.

{{00:05:12}}
So financial inclusion is not
just about a domestic rail.

{{00:05:15}}
I think it's about the services that
plug in on top of that infrastructure

{{00:05:20}}
and really bringing like top notch
global services to African consumers.

{{00:05:25}}
That's really interesting in
terms of when we look at the

{{00:05:28}}
demographics of the continent,
it's projected, I think, by the UN.

{{00:05:33}}
that you're going to see a 40 percent rise
in the middle class demographic in Africa.

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What is Chipper Cash's role then
in facilitating the changing

{{00:05:44}}
financial needs of those people?

{{00:05:47}}
Yeah.

{{00:05:48}}
So I think I think a key component
is when you have a lot more people

{{00:05:54}}
you, need to enable a lot more
business and a lot more trade.

{{00:05:57}}
I think Africa is made up of 54
different countries and we don't

{{00:06:02}}
have enough intra Africa trade
amongst our different countries.

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And as CHIPA, we see that as, one of
the roles and things we want to try and

{{00:06:09}}
do is, be that payment service provider
that enables much faster, easier, and

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cheaper, and more accessible cross border
transactional and payment services.

{{00:06:19}}
And we believe that will drive economic
growth in these countries because

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With that growth in population,
you've got to have economic

{{00:06:26}}
stimulation and drive behind that.

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And, the role we play is how we
facilitate the payment component of

{{00:06:33}}
that, which we think is extremely
important to facilitate that cross,

{{00:06:37}}
cross, intra Africa, cross country trade.

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Are you seeing greater proliferation
in one country over the rest?

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Is that one area where there's
really been a, huge transformation

{{00:06:50}}
in the last 10 years?

{{00:06:51}}
So I think I I think Africa is quite
split into its different regions.

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You've got a lot happening in the
southern components or southern and

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central, eastern, western, northern.

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So each region has got
different strategies.

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There's been a lot of growth domestically
in terms of domestic switches that have

{{00:07:10}}
been popping up in different countries.

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So in the UK and Europe, we talk about
foster payments and things like that.

{{00:07:17}}
That same infrastructure is
being built in, in, in Africa.

{{00:07:22}}
And it's then extending into
regional switches and regional

{{00:07:25}}
infrastructure that's happening.

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So I think you can't look at Africa as one
piece it is it's 54 uniquely identified

{{00:07:35}}
countries that have different customer
needs in each of them and have different

{{00:07:40}}
trading partners and different services,
but you've got to understand where trade

{{00:07:46}}
or what is flowing between those countries
and then really try and prioritize

{{00:07:51}}
the services you provide between those
countries and get your price points and

{{00:07:55}}
get your service level at the right spot.

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That is a really interesting thing
to say in that it's a very unique

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and also very fragmented market.

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As, you would expect from, a continent of
so many different countries and cultures.

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How is Chippa Cash then leveraging or
enhancing its technology to make sure

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that it's able to meet the, very specific
needs of each country where it operates?

{{00:08:28}}
Yeah, I think one of the privileges or
one of the benefits, let's say, of being

{{00:08:33}}
a a new company, and I put new company
in the five year bracket, but we can we

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have the privilege of being able to build
our tech stack on the latest technologies

{{00:08:44}}
that are out there, and design it in a
way that allows us to be very agile in

{{00:08:50}}
how we provide services to our customers.

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I think it's that is not a privilege
that a lot of let's say traditional banks

{{00:08:58}}
in a lot of the countries we trade in
have they're sitting on legacy systems.

{{00:09:04}}
And I think that's a constant thing.

{{00:09:05}}
We know that the world has changed
with what's happening with with natural

{{00:09:10}}
language and ai, and we constantly looking
at how we embed that into our services.

{{00:09:14}}
So even within our own onboarding
flows we leveraging a lot of a lot of

{{00:09:21}}
new technologies that's facilitating
more automated foster more.

{{00:09:26}}
Risk related onboarding flows.

{{00:09:30}}
It's something that we are a very much
of an engineering focused business.

{{00:09:35}}
Like our customer is at the
center of everything we do.

{{00:09:38}}
But we very much place a lot of
emphasis on how we solve problems and

{{00:09:43}}
the speed that we can solve them at.

{{00:09:45}}
And being agile to the needs
of our customer and the

{{00:09:48}}
uniqueness of each country.

{{00:09:51}}
The Chipper service in Each
country is slightly different

{{00:09:54}}
depending on the markets.

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Sometimes driven by regulations,
sometimes driven by customer needs.

{{00:10:01}}
But you need to be flexible
in how you do that.

{{00:10:03}}
And having flexible technology at
the core is an important component.

{{00:10:09}}
Definitely.

{{00:10:09}}
I think that sort of element of agility
that you're talking about is really the

{{00:10:16}}
deciding factor in being able to tap the
African market and serve its needs well.

{{00:10:23}}
Here at Finovate day two, one thing
that I noticed when I was looking

{{00:10:27}}
at the agenda was the prominence of
this conversation that we're having

{{00:10:31}}
right now in the rate of innovation in
Africa and how, just how quickly the

{{00:10:40}}
continent's technology is, changing.

{{00:10:43}}
The world has its eyes
on Africa right now.

{{00:10:46}}
And what can it learn from the rate
of innovation that we're seeing?

{{00:10:50}}
So I think there's a braveness
in Africa to leapfrog.

{{00:10:56}}
And, I think that, you
need to have that mindset.

{{00:11:01}}
I think that mindset of building something
for exponential scale, that mindset of

{{00:11:07}}
building something that can be done better
than it's done elsewhere and, as I said,

{{00:11:13}}
like leveraging the latest technology.

{{00:11:15}}
I think if you're not doing that.

{{00:11:17}}
Especially right now like the world
changed a year ago and we all need to

{{00:11:23}}
be thinking that what we built two years
ago is no longer necessarily acceptable.

{{00:11:29}}
So you've got to work out how you leverage
these leapfrog technologies, whether

{{00:11:35}}
it's what's happening in AI, whether it's
what's happening with cryptocurrencies

{{00:11:40}}
but you've got to embrace these services
because I think there's real, but you've

{{00:11:43}}
got to make sure you're finding the
customer need to match the two together.

{{00:11:48}}
I think outside of that Africa is, a very
a population of very resilient people

{{00:11:56}}
that have had to learn to thrive in chaos.

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And I think it's something that as,
a finance service provider, we need

{{00:12:06}}
to be able to provide services at
the greatest level in that chaos.

{{00:12:11}}
We transact in countries where.

{{00:12:14}}
Exchange rates are jumping up and down
and we need to make sure that in those

{{00:12:19}}
times the services that we provide
meet the are stable, are reliable.

{{00:12:26}}
It's very tricky when a currency is
devaluing and people are trying to, I

{{00:12:32}}
don't know, in some cases get access to,
US dollars because it's more reliable.

{{00:12:37}}
Do you have sufficient amount of it?

{{00:12:39}}
And how do you manage those
liquidity needs along with

{{00:12:42}}
the technology challenges?

{{00:12:44}}
But at its core it's not seeing
instability as a, as an issue, but

{{00:12:51}}
actually thriving in those situations.

{{00:12:53}}
And I think that's that's
something we value and try and

{{00:12:56}}
hold ourselves accountable to.

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This is very interesting.

{{00:13:00}}
I think it's a, I think it's a really
interesting way to see the situation and

{{00:13:06}}
a very promising way to view it as well.

{{00:13:09}}
In terms of Finovate Europe 2024 this
year, we're well into the second day now.

{{00:13:16}}
What specific technologies or concepts
do you have your eye out for or are you

{{00:13:21}}
looking for partnerships or what is it?

{{00:13:25}}
Yeah, I think, there's been a few,
interesting aspects around onboarding.

{{00:13:33}}
There's quite a lot of
focus on onboarding.

{{00:13:36}}
We have built quite a lot in house now
with our onboarding services, but it's

{{00:13:40}}
always interesting to engage and learn.

{{00:13:43}}
There's obviously a lot of things
starting to happen in the AI space

{{00:13:46}}
around how you improve customer flows,
how you improve fraud, controls.

{{00:13:54}}
So there's a lot of things
there that we can learn.

{{00:13:57}}
But I think partnerships
are key to any FinTech.

{{00:14:00}}
I think we've got a lot of
partnerships, one with Visa,

{{00:14:03}}
which we host our, virtual cards.

{{00:14:06}}
So as Chipper, we've issued over
a million cards into Africa.

{{00:14:10}}
We've got through this kind of strong
and growing partnership with Visa.

{{00:14:14}}
But we also have partnerships with
other FinTech businesses who do similar

{{00:14:19}}
things to what we do, but maybe in
different regions of the continent where.

{{00:14:23}}
We can access their infrastructure,
they can access our infrastructure.

{{00:14:27}}
So although we compete in what we provide,
we don't necessarily compete in geography.

{{00:14:31}}
But that ability to, collectively
try and solve this problem,

{{00:14:35}}
I think is is important.

{{00:14:37}}
That's a really, good attitude
to have to the, to addressing

{{00:14:41}}
the needs of the market.

{{00:14:42}}
And I am really excited
Chipper Cash will do do next.

{{00:14:46}}
But Brett McGrath, it's been
really fantastic to speak to you.

{{00:14:51}}
Thank you to everybody who's followed
along with this conversation.

{{00:14:54}}
If you would like to find out
more please visit fintechfutures.

{{00:14:59}}
com.

{{00:14:59}}
And until then, I shall see you soon.

{{00:15:01}}
Thank you.

Hello, everybody, and welcome
to Finovate Europe 2024.

We're here at day two of the
event, and I'm very happy to be

joined by Brett Magrath, Chief
Product Officer of Chipper Cash.

Yeah good Just Had our fireside
chat, so it was good fun.

All good, Yeah, nice to share some
experiences and views and opinions on

payments in Africa and FinTech in Africa.

Can you give us a little bit of insight
into what the FinTech is, please?

So as Chipper Cash, we are a
FinTech business focused on Africa.

From Nigeria, Uganda,
Ghana, Rwanda, and Zambia.

We're also licensed in 40 states in the U.

And we have almost two
kind of divisions, right?

So we've got our consumer side
of our business and what we

So as our consumers, We, at the
core, provide the ability to

move money into and out of the
countries that our customers are in.

And that could be in fiat rails,
it could be leveraging crypto,

We have an investment component
that kind of looks at investing

And then a spend aspect, which is
really around domestic marketplaces

As well as accessing our US
dollar Visa card where you can

On the Chipper for Business side, we
obviously are building a whole lot of

And on the Chipper for Business side,
we're really looking to open up those

payment rails for companies in the
US or Europe or anywhere outside of

Africa that's looking for a payment
solution into or out of Africa.

So we enable disbursements and
collections across 40 countries in Africa.

If we are if you're a business
looking to send money into or get

money out of Africa we're looking
to provide that service for you.

You've got a very broad
sort of service suite.

And, in a really interesting and
fascinating market like Africa.

From your standpoint then, what can
you tell us about the current FinTech

Yeah I think there's been a lot of
investments into FinTech in Africa.

And I think that investment is
structured in a few tiers, right?

So the first tier is really the
foundational side which is building

So there's a lot of digital forms
of onboarding that we've seen

So you need to make sure that
infrastructure is available in

So that's something that, that we spend
a lot of time with and are integrating

into different government databases such
that we can, identify and verify users.

The other side of that is then
the payment infrastructure.

So it's a lot of that
didn't exist historically.

So there's been a lot of money that's gone
into building out this infrastructure.

That's enabling real time payments and
collections across that infrastructure.

And yeah outside of that, there's been
a lot of work in the regulatory space

But yeah at the core, like I said,
that's like that foundational layer

that enables a lot of services to
then start plugging in on top of that.

So you're seeing a lot of
investments into quite creative

Credit data that previously didn't exist.

You're looking at things like what we
are offering in terms of connecting

African consumers to global services
that they previously didn't have.

And, there's a huge need for the
services that our companies are bringing.

So it's an interesting space
and time for the continent.

In terms of investment, I think
the continent is projected

So do you think it's an issue of financial
inclusion that it's looking to solve?

I think there is still a need
for more financial inclusion.

Unless everybody is included,
there's always a task to

But I think that mobile money has
facilitated quite a good role in domestic

As I said, until everyone has
access, we haven't reached that goal.

But where I think financial inclusion
starts coming in is why is it that

certain people living in London have
access to certain financial services

that grow their wealth that people
in Africa don't have access to.

So financial inclusion is not
just about a domestic rail.

I think it's about the services that
plug in on top of that infrastructure

and really bringing like top notch
global services to African consumers.

That's really interesting in
terms of when we look at the

FinTech Futures

Expert Insight

Sitting down with Brett Magrath, chief product officer of Chipper Cash, at FinovateEurope this year provided further insight into how the US-based fintech's payment and business solutions are bridging the inclusivity gap among the fast-changing face of Africa's financial markets.
Our conversation with Magrath explores:
The intriguing targets and intentions of increasing investor activity across the continent.
How the delivery of financial services is shifting with the growth of the middle market.
The heightened importance of financial contextualisation and product tailoring in Africa.
Why money-moving services are solving the continent's historic inclusivity dilemma.