Name: Driving positive changes in fintech: How is the industry engaging with DEI?
Uploaded: 2024-04-04T14:36:42.053Z
Duration: 695
Description: Nadia Edwards-Dashti, Chief Customer Officer of Harrington Starr, shares her insight on progression in fintech and financial services for women and minority groups. What is it that the industry needs to do in order to overcome bias, stigmas, and more barriers?

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Nadia Edwards-Dashti.vtt

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{{00:00:03}}
David Penn: Hi, I'm David Penn,
Research Analyst with Finovate.

{{00:00:06}}
I'm joined today by Nadia Edwards-Dashti.

{{00:00:07}}
She is the Chief Customer Officer with
Harrington Starr and host of a podcast.

{{00:00:12}}
What's the name of that podcast again?

{{00:00:13}}
Nadia Edwards-Dashti:
Thank you for having me.

{{00:00:14}}
The podcast is called
FinTech's DEI Discussions.

{{00:00:17}}
David Penn: Oh fantastic.

{{00:00:18}}
That's one of the things we're going to
start with in our conversation today.

{{00:00:22}}
One of the things you talk about in
your podcast are a lot of people in

{{00:00:24}}
terms of the successes that they've had
in driving positive change in fintech.

{{00:00:28}}
And I'm wondering if maybe you could
share a story or two about that with us.

{{00:00:31}}
Nadia Edwards-Dashti:
Yeah, I would love to.

{{00:00:32}}
I'm The podcast itself has
been such an enjoyable journey.

{{00:00:36}}
We've hit 400 episodes.

{{00:00:37}}
That's 400 stories of people in
our industry, all across financial

{{00:00:42}}
technology, financial services,
sales, all sorts of roles and how

{{00:00:46}}
they've progressed in their careers.

{{00:00:49}}
Despite, challenges, despite
discrimination, despite bias.

{{00:00:52}}
And those stories are so empowering
because they talk about how people

{{00:00:57}}
have moved into businesses in support
functions and are now running the

{{00:01:02}}
function across the whole of the Americas.

{{00:01:05}}
And it's just so, inspiring to hear all
the different ways and means in which

{{00:01:11}}
people can and have progressed within
the sector, but also all the different

{{00:01:14}}
career trajectories and how people are
more and more being given the option

{{00:01:20}}
opportunity to move within businesses.

{{00:01:23}}
So for anyone wanting to listen to
FinTech's DEI Discussions, they are

{{00:01:28}}
stories and they are case studies of
progression of learning also how to make

{{00:01:33}}
your business a better place for all.

{{00:01:36}}
David Penn: Interesting.

{{00:01:36}}
Interesting.

{{00:01:37}}
I'm curious, did you have a
background at all in broadcasting?

{{00:01:40}}
What made you decide to launch a podcast?

{{00:01:42}}
Nadia Edwards-Dashti: Wow.

{{00:01:42}}
So it was a bit of a journey.

{{00:01:44}}
And actually this is the honest truth.

{{00:01:46}}
It came out of a bit of anger.

{{00:01:49}}
I've worked since 2005 in
the world of recruitment.

{{00:01:52}}
So finding people jobs, technologists
or sales individuals, jobs in

{{00:01:56}}
the financial services space.

{{00:01:58}}
And I was sick and tired of being told
that women didn't exist within this space.

{{00:02:02}}
Or that anybody from an ethnic minority
or particular religion or, any sort

{{00:02:08}}
of specific demographic background.

{{00:02:10}}
When I had the access and the
conversations with so many amazing

{{00:02:14}}
people from all sorts of backgrounds.

{{00:02:16}}
So my first thought was, how
can I show that there are all

{{00:02:21}}
these amazing people out there?

{{00:02:23}}
So I started the podcast itself
as one particular area and I

{{00:02:27}}
called it The Women of Fintech.

{{00:02:28}}
So my first a hundred episodes.

{{00:02:30}}
We're purely with women.

{{00:02:31}}
It was only then after that journey
of learning that I knew that I wanted

{{00:02:36}}
to showcase all the different people
within our sector, but also showcase

{{00:02:40}}
to those outside of the sector
that there's a place for them here.

{{00:02:43}}
There's opportunity for them here.

{{00:02:44}}
And more importantly, we are
stronger with them here and

{{00:02:47}}
with that diversity of thought.

{{00:02:49}}
So it's been a real journey
that I'm super proud of.

{{00:02:52}}
David Penn: Yeah, it
really sounds incredible.

{{00:02:53}}
You've mentioned 400 episodes a
lot of different sorts of folks.

{{00:02:56}}
You've got a lot of women, a lot of
folks from other backgrounds as well.

{{00:02:59}}
Given all that difference, do you
still, at the end of the day, find any

{{00:03:02}}
commonalities in terms of the challenges
that they face, even if they're

{{00:03:05}}
coming from different backgrounds?

{{00:03:06}}
Nadia Edwards-Dashti: Oh,
there's so many challenges.

{{00:03:07}}
You're absolutely right.

{{00:03:08}}
The commonality in challenges.

{{00:03:10}}
We still face quite a lot of
bias within the workplace.

{{00:03:14}}
I'll give you a couple
of very, brief examples.

{{00:03:16}}
Basic examples.

{{00:03:18}}
There are themes that come up again
and again in the podcast, and that's

{{00:03:22}}
around recognition, promotion, and pay.

{{00:03:25}}
And a lot of the time people will
turn to that marginalized community

{{00:03:29}}
and say you need to be more
confident in asking for a pay rise.

{{00:03:33}}
You need to be more confident
in asking for promotion.

{{00:03:35}}
The onus is, it's widely acceptable
that the onus is put onto

{{00:03:40}}
that marginalized individual.

{{00:03:42}}
And my work is very much
to flip that on its head.

{{00:03:45}}
Like most people will feel confident
if you are confident in them.

{{00:03:49}}
Or when they ask for the pay rise, you
take them seriously, as seriously as

{{00:03:53}}
you do somebody else asking for the
pay rise, because very sadly there are

{{00:03:56}}
statistics out there that show that
women when asking for a pay rise are

{{00:04:01}}
more likely to be to declined that
pay rise than their male counterparts.

{{00:04:05}}
So what are we doing as an industry
and environment to change that?

{{00:04:09}}
So those three themes, as they come up
again and again, I work very closely

{{00:04:13}}
with different clients and customers
across the industry to make sure

{{00:04:17}}
that they're, they are making their
environment as hospitable as possible

{{00:04:21}}
for people to be able to thrive fairly.

{{00:04:24}}
David Penn: That's really interesting.

{{00:04:24}}
I remember reading somewhere talking
about the difference between male and

{{00:04:27}}
female applicants often is that men
feel much more comfortable blowing that

{{00:04:31}}
resume up as big as they can inflate it.

{{00:04:34}}
And women will often pare back and
would never think to put anything

{{00:04:37}}
that's not going to be a hundred
percent verified and so forth.

{{00:04:40}}
And that seems to be another
reflection of that difference.

{{00:04:43}}
Nadia Edwards-Dashti: Yeah, absolutely.

{{00:04:44}}
And the first thing that many companies
do is they say, okay, so we're going

{{00:04:48}}
to change the way we write our adverts.

{{00:04:50}}
I take that a step further from
all the lessons I've learned from

{{00:04:53}}
those 400 episodes is why do we
have the adverts in the first place?

{{00:04:57}}
I know that sounds quite controversial,
but how about let's think of new and

{{00:05:01}}
innovative ways to attract people to
the space, to interview people in the

{{00:05:04}}
space, so that we're not interviewing
people to catch them out, which is

{{00:05:08}}
the traditional way of interviewing.

{{00:05:09}}
But how do we interview people to catch
them in, to understand transferable skills

{{00:05:14}}
to understand potential to understand
what they could become within this

{{00:05:18}}
amazing space because we all know in this
industry, everything changes so fast,

{{00:05:24}}
even if you were to hire the person that
you determine as the best person for

{{00:05:29}}
the job who's done that job before with
their eyes closed, even if you hire them,

{{00:05:33}}
what's to say they can do it tomorrow.

{{00:05:36}}
So for me, it's all connected.

{{00:05:39}}
For me, it's mission critical that
we understand inclusion properly.

{{00:05:43}}
And that's from a recruitment
point of view, retention,

{{00:05:45}}
investment in people point of view.

{{00:05:47}}
Because after all, 2023, how much
was written about the productivity

{{00:05:52}}
crisis and are people engaged?

{{00:05:55}}
To me, this is why it's mission critical.

{{00:05:57}}
You include people properly.

{{00:05:58}}
They are allowed and
encouraged to thrive.

{{00:06:02}}
And when they thrive, engagement
goes up, productivity goes up.

{{00:06:06}}
We achieve way more together.

{{00:06:08}}
David Penn: Interesting.

{{00:06:09}}
I wanted to go back a little bit.

{{00:06:10}}
You're the chief customer officer
at Harrington Starr, and I wanted to

{{00:06:12}}
make sure people had understanding
of what Harrington Starr does

{{00:06:15}}
and the role that you play there.

{{00:06:16}}
Could you talk just a
little bit about that?

{{00:06:18}}
Nadia Edwards-Dashti:
Yeah, I would love to.

{{00:06:19}}
So I'm one of the founding team.

{{00:06:21}}
We started the business back in 2010.

{{00:06:23}}
And we are a recruitment business
that we are recruiting business that

{{00:06:28}}
reaches out to technologists and
salespeople and helps them find jobs

{{00:06:31}}
within the financial services space.

{{00:06:33}}
So we do cover your newest and smallest
fintechs all the way through to building

{{00:06:38}}
relationships with most traditional
financial institutions out there.

{{00:06:42}}
But I think what we do that makes
us different is when we set up the

{{00:06:46}}
business, we always said that we didn't
want to only make our relationships

{{00:06:50}}
when the transaction was happening,
the actual move was happening.

{{00:06:53}}
How about we actually invest our
time into people, their careers

{{00:06:57}}
and the growth of their careers.

{{00:06:58}}
Therefore, the growth of this industry,
the growth of businesses in a sustainable

{{00:07:03}}
way, everyone will have   a concern about
retention, staff retention, everyone

{{00:07:09}}
will know how difficult it is to find
the right talent and keep them, but also

{{00:07:14}}
have them perform at their absolute best.

{{00:07:16}}
These are all the topics that we have
really embedded ourselves into so that

{{00:07:20}}
we build trust with people that we
celebrate this industry on a macro level.

{{00:07:24}}
We can attract more people to the
space, people who never, ever thought

{{00:07:27}}
that the space would be for them.

{{00:07:30}}
And we work, on that from a macro point
of view so that we can then really focus

{{00:07:34}}
on different individuals and different
businesses to help them thrive, grow

{{00:07:38}}
and be stronger and better together.

{{00:07:40}}
David Penn: Very interesting.

{{00:07:41}}
I would imagine that in your capacity,
then you have a really great idea, not

{{00:07:44}}
just of what companies want in terms of
new hires and new applicants, but what

{{00:07:47}}
applicants are looking for in a company.

{{00:07:50}}
I'm curious, what are some of the things
that you hear about, given the way that

{{00:07:52}}
you have a, I would call higher level
of engagement with potential applicants?

{{00:07:56}}
What is it that you hear from them
when they say, this is really what I

{{00:07:58}}
want out of an employment opportunity?

{{00:08:01}}
Nadia Edwards-Dashti: Absolutely.

{{00:08:02}}
So we've had a huge rise in flexibility.

{{00:08:05}}
There's been a lot of concern around
hybrid working because as we went

{{00:08:09}}
through the pandemic, it was everyone
at home, then bring back hybrid.

{{00:08:12}}
And now there's been a massive
increase, 25 percent increase in

{{00:08:16}}
the vacancies that we have that now
require people to be coming into

{{00:08:19}}
the office four or five days a week.

{{00:08:20}}
So there, there are concerns around that.

{{00:08:23}}
But what's really grown is this this.

{{00:08:25}}
It's a subscription to values, mission
being, really feeling in tune with

{{00:08:32}}
what the company is trying to do.

{{00:08:34}}
Again, that does really affect that
productivity piece, that engagement piece,

{{00:08:38}}
because if someone really feels they
have an affinity to what this business is

{{00:08:42}}
trying to do, what it's trying to achieve,
and maybe if it's a huge business.

{{00:08:47}}
And that's difficult to grasp hold
of, but actually what that team is

{{00:08:50}}
trying to do, what that part of the
large conglomerate is trying to do.

{{00:08:54}}
If there is a connection there,
then people have a reason

{{00:08:57}}
to wake up in the morning.

{{00:08:58}}
I think this has
historically been overlooked.

{{00:09:01}}
Historically it's been,
can you do the job?

{{00:09:03}}
Here's the job.

{{00:09:04}}
This is the money for the job.

{{00:09:06}}
Transaction, transaction.

{{00:09:07}}
Whereas people are human beings.

{{00:09:09}}
They've got motivations.

{{00:09:10}}
They've got desires.

{{00:09:10}}
There's a whole new awareness around
work life balance and purpose.

{{00:09:15}}
And that purpose piece and engagement
piece for me is very connected.

{{00:09:20}}
David Penn: Yeah, it really does seem
like there's been a revel between  the

{{00:09:23}}
the outcomes of the discontents of the
pandemic and just a new generation.

{{00:09:27}}
You have your millennials that sort
of started a lot of this and then now

{{00:09:29}}
the subsequent generations really is
pushing it further and further as a

{{00:09:32}}
human being, I've got needs beyond.

{{00:09:34}}
Again, this transactional
nature of a job as well.

{{00:09:38}}
One thing I'm curious about in terms
of, again, obviously a lot of companies

{{00:09:41}}
here at FinovateEurope, a lot of folks
who run companies watching, I'm sure,

{{00:09:45}}
in terms of some suggestions or advice
that you might give them in order to

{{00:09:48}}
have a more inclusive workplace and
to accomplish some of these things and

{{00:09:51}}
provide those environments for the sort
of people that you're talking with who

{{00:09:54}}
are really ready to go and ready to
be engaged in something meaningful.

{{00:09:57}}
But want to know that is
going to be well received.

{{00:10:00}}
What are some of the suggestions
you might give to those, CEOs, those

{{00:10:03}}
executives with their companies?

{{00:10:05}}
Nadia Edwards-Dashti: Definitely
communicate ask for people to communicate

{{00:10:08}}
back to you, but truly listen and then do
something with what you've listened to.

{{00:10:12}}
I think there's a lot of fatigue at the
moment around around applicants, but

{{00:10:17}}
also people within businesses who say,
I've tried to talk to my boss about this.

{{00:10:21}}
I've tried to talk about how, I
can make my role a better role

{{00:10:24}}
for me, how I can be producing
more and it's fallen on deaf ears.

{{00:10:28}}
And I think that's a real shame because
if we're asking the questions, which

{{00:10:31}}
I think a lot of businesses know
they need to around wellness, around

{{00:10:35}}
psychological safety, around how
they can make an environment the best

{{00:10:38}}
environment ever for someone to work in.

{{00:10:41}}
They're starting to ask the
questions, but what are they doing

{{00:10:43}}
in response to those answers?

{{00:10:45}}
And sometimes you can't make the
changes overnight, but communicating

{{00:10:48}}
that someone has been heard, it is
absolutely overwhelming the reason

{{00:10:53}}
for people leaving their roles.

{{00:10:55}}
And that overwhelming reason
is they are not heard.

{{00:10:58}}
They don't feel heard or they feel
their opinion doesn't count or matter.

{{00:11:02}}
And a lot of people think it's down to
simply pay rises or amount of holidays.

{{00:11:06}}
But actually this ability to be heard
and actually inputs into the direction

{{00:11:11}}
of what it is that we're about to
do is hugely valuable to people.

{{00:11:15}}
So I say, listen and act on it.

{{00:11:17}}
David Penn: No excellent, advice.

{{00:11:19}}
Fantastic conversation.

{{00:11:20}}
I was really glad we got a chance to
sit down and talk about some of these

{{00:11:22}}
issues that again, are so important
and really important   things things

{{00:11:26}}
for business leaders to keep in mind.

{{00:11:28}}
Nadia Edwards-Dashti: Yeah.

{{00:11:28}}
Thank you very much.

{{00:11:29}}
David Penn: Fantastic.

{{00:11:30}}
And thank you very much
for joining us as well.

David Penn: Hi, I'm David Penn,
Research Analyst with Finovate.

I'm joined today by Nadia Edwards-Dashti.

She is the Chief Customer Officer with
Harrington Starr and host of a podcast.

Nadia Edwards-Dashti:
Thank you for having me.

The podcast is called
FinTech's DEI Discussions.

That's one of the things we're going to
start with in our conversation today.

One of the things you talk about in
your podcast are a lot of people in

terms of the successes that they've had
in driving positive change in fintech.

And I'm wondering if maybe you could
share a story or two about that with us.

Nadia Edwards-Dashti:
Yeah, I would love to.

I'm The podcast itself has
been such an enjoyable journey.

That's 400 stories of people in
our industry, all across financial

technology, financial services,
sales, all sorts of roles and how

Despite, challenges, despite
discrimination, despite bias.

And those stories are so empowering
because they talk about how people

have moved into businesses in support
functions and are now running the

function across the whole of the Americas.

And it's just so, inspiring to hear all
the different ways and means in which

people can and have progressed within
the sector, but also all the different

career trajectories and how people are
more and more being given the option

So for anyone wanting to listen to
FinTech's DEI Discussions, they are

stories and they are case studies of
progression of learning also how to make

I'm curious, did you have a
background at all in broadcasting?

What made you decide to launch a podcast?

I've worked since 2005 in
the world of recruitment.

So finding people jobs, technologists
or sales individuals, jobs in

And I was sick and tired of being told
that women didn't exist within this space.

Or that anybody from an ethnic minority
or particular religion or, any sort

When I had the access and the
conversations with so many amazing

So my first thought was, how
can I show that there are all

So I started the podcast itself
as one particular area and I

It was only then after that journey
of learning that I knew that I wanted

to showcase all the different people
within our sector, but also showcase

to those outside of the sector
that there's a place for them here.

And more importantly, we are
stronger with them here and

So it's been a real journey
that I'm super proud of.

David Penn: Yeah, it
really sounds incredible.

You've mentioned 400 episodes a
lot of different sorts of folks.

You've got a lot of women, a lot of
folks from other backgrounds as well.

Given all that difference, do you
still, at the end of the day, find any

commonalities in terms of the challenges
that they face, even if they're

Nadia Edwards-Dashti: Oh,
there's so many challenges.

We still face quite a lot of
bias within the workplace.

I'll give you a couple
of very, brief examples.

There are themes that come up again
and again in the podcast, and that's

And a lot of the time people will
turn to that marginalized community

and say you need to be more
confident in asking for a pay rise.

You need to be more confident
in asking for promotion.

The onus is, it's widely acceptable
that the onus is put onto

And my work is very much
to flip that on its head.

Like most people will feel confident
if you are confident in them.

Or when they ask for the pay rise, you
take them seriously, as seriously as

you do somebody else asking for the
pay rise, because very sadly there are

statistics out there that show that
women when asking for a pay rise are

more likely to be to declined that
pay rise than their male counterparts.

So what are we doing as an industry
and environment to change that?

So those three themes, as they come up
again and again, I work very closely

with different clients and customers
across the industry to make sure

that they're, they are making their
environment as hospitable as possible

I remember reading somewhere talking
about the difference between male and

female applicants often is that men
feel much more comfortable blowing that

And women will often pare back and
would never think to put anything

that's not going to be a hundred
percent verified and so forth.

And that seems to be another
reflection of that difference.

And the first thing that many companies
do is they say, okay, so we're going

I take that a step further from
all the lessons I've learned from

those 400 episodes is why do we
have the adverts in the first place?

I know that sounds quite controversial,
but how about let's think of new and

FinovateEurope

Expert Insight

Trend

Nadia Edwards-Dashti, Chief Customer Officer of Harrington Starr, shares her insight on progression in fintech and financial services for women and minority groups. What is it that the industry needs to do in order to overcome bias, stigmas, and more barriers?