Name: Have new ways of working solved the working parent dilemma?
Uploaded: 2023-02-22T15:06:31.703Z
Duration: 465.83

Parental Leave draft 8.mp4

Parental leave.vtt

English

{{00:00:00}}
We can flex and we can be more
invested in our career at certain

{{00:00:03}}
points and more invested in our kids,
but we have to play the long game.

{{00:00:10}}
Well I think this is the most exciting
time in the whole time that I've

{{00:00:21}}
ever been working because previous
to the pandemic, lots of people who

{{00:00:24}}
were working parents were saying
nothing was really working for them.

{{00:00:27}}
That they were overwhelmed by
the demands of work and the

{{00:00:29}}
demands of running a household and
children, whether they're single

{{00:00:31}}
parents, or where there's two
adults in the household working.

{{00:00:34}}
And this has kind of released the most
incredible potential for people to

{{00:00:39}}
be able to drop children at school,
do a full day's work, and then maybe

{{00:00:43}}
have their partner pick them up or
manage their days during the week

{{00:00:46}}
so they can be present at the school
gate, more involved with their kids,

{{00:00:49}}
more able to manage things at home.

{{00:00:51}}
And I've interviewed lots of people
who say that actually they feel

{{00:00:53}}
that they're- they can become much
more senior in their career as

{{00:00:56}}
a result of new ways of working.

{{00:00:57}}
So it's very exciting.

{{00:00:59}}
It does sound very exciting.

{{00:01:00}}
And I imagine this has changed
a lot since your book came out

{{00:01:03}}
in 2018, the world in general.

{{00:01:06}}
Can you talk a little bit
about some of those changes?

{{00:01:08}}
I think when I wrote the book
in 2018, it was very much sort

{{00:01:11}}
of on the back of lean in,
everybody needs to work harder.

{{00:01:14}}
And the big thing that I wanted people
to take away is, look, the way that

{{00:01:17}}
we are working doesn't work for people
who have caring responsibilities.

{{00:01:21}}
And it isn't because you
are not trying hard enough.

{{00:01:23}}
It's because it wasn't set up.

{{00:01:24}}
You know, we set up the world
of sort of work really on a very

{{00:01:28}}
idealised version of a breadwinner
model where one parent, ie.

{{00:01:30}}
dad at that time, went out to
work and mum was at home caring

{{00:01:34}}
for kids and shopping and
cleaning and all those things.

{{00:01:38}}
And that world doesn't exist
for most people anymore.

{{00:01:40}}
So I think what's moved on is
that we've kind of- I think

{{00:01:43}}
we've all agreed that now it's,
that's been largely accepted.

{{00:01:45}}
And actually, where we are now is
we've kind of got a new way that

{{00:01:49}}
we might be able to make this
work to some extent at least.

{{00:01:53}}
I guess, what advice would
you have for parents trying to

{{00:01:56}}
combine this work with caring?

{{00:01:58}}
I think you have to be very
honest about who you are

{{00:02:01}}
and what you want to do.

{{00:02:02}}
You know, if you want to be chief
executive, then me telling you to

{{00:02:05}}
put boundaries around your time
and change your working schedule,

{{00:02:09}}
is- you're just going to be
like no, I'm really ambitious.

{{00:02:11}}
This is what I want to do.

{{00:02:12}}
So I think you have to be
very honest about who you are.

{{00:02:14}}
But I think you also, and I think
this is sometimes harder when your

{{00:02:17}}
children are very small, you have
to think quite long term about it.

{{00:02:20}}
You know, this is a very important
relationship and I see a lot of

{{00:02:23}}
professionals later on regret that
they didn't make more concessions

{{00:02:27}}
to being a parent sometimes earlier.

{{00:02:29}}
So making sure at every stage that
when you look back on this later,

{{00:02:32}}
will you've done what you think was
the right thing to do, and as long

{{00:02:34}}
as you think that you will have
done, you'll be absolutely fine.

{{00:02:38}}
But think about where are the
edges, where are the boundaries?

{{00:02:41}}
Are there fixed points for you that
you really want to do every day?

{{00:02:44}}
Are there fixed points in the week?

{{00:02:45}}
And just really move your schedule to
meet that and make the effort to do it.

{{00:02:50}}
It's interesting that you point
out that the person has to kind of

{{00:02:53}}
recognise what their ambitions are,
but does that mean that someone

{{00:02:57}}
who has ambitions, does that mean
they have to sort of give up?

{{00:03:01}}
Well, it means you would set
up your life differently.

{{00:03:02}}
If you say, look, I'm going to be chief
executive and I've got a couple of

{{00:03:05}}
kids, then you're going to be right,
it might be that for me, the important

{{00:03:08}}
thing is to do the school run on Friday
afternoon, see the kids and check in.

{{00:03:11}}
If somebody doesn't want to be chief
executive, just like, I don't know,

{{00:03:14}}
they're doing a job and they really
like doing whatever they're doing, they

{{00:03:16}}
might say, well, actually I'd like to
do that three or four times a week.

{{00:03:18}}
So I think it's really about scale.

{{00:03:20}}
I think you can be a very good parent
and very senior, but you are going

{{00:03:23}}
to spend less time potentially, and
you've got to be okay with that.

{{00:03:26}}
And then you've got to put the
systems around that to make sure

{{00:03:29}}
that you are happy with who the kids
are spending time with, and that

{{00:03:32}}
you are happy with the amount of
time that you're spending doing it.

{{00:03:34}}
When we talk about diversity and
inclusion and really opening up the

{{00:03:39}}
types of roles that are possible
for people and especially women

{{00:03:42}}
in general typically didn't get
those higher level roles because

{{00:03:46}}
they were busy with the children.

{{00:03:48}}
So, I guess are there ways in
which companies have to work with

{{00:03:54}}
ambitious individuals who want both?

{{00:03:57}}
I think there's two
things going on here.

{{00:03:58}}
One, and we've seen it around
Covid is the real rise of fathers.

{{00:04:02}}
And I think that's one of the
big changes since 2018, really

{{00:04:05}}
recognising the importance of fathers.

{{00:04:07}}
And a lot of the interviews that I do
now, men are much more aware of the

{{00:04:10}}
impact of their behaviour on their
partners and how they need to equalise

{{00:04:15}}
that if they're both going to be active
parents, which most people want to be

{{00:04:18}}
now, or a lot of people want to be now.

{{00:04:19}}
So for instance, I interviewed a
man recently who said I've realised

{{00:04:22}}
when I overwork that that damages
my wife's career because that means

{{00:04:25}}
she by default does everything else.

{{00:04:27}}
So actually I have to have
boundaries in order for her to

{{00:04:30}}
also be able to work successfully.

{{00:04:32}}
So I think that has really changed,
and companies supporting that, because

{{00:04:35}}
previously we've had cultures where
if men wanted to do the school run,

{{00:04:39}}
people are like rolling their eyes
and like, don't you have a wife?

{{00:04:41}}
And all those kind of old quotes.

{{00:04:42}}
I think that has really changed.

{{00:04:44}}
I think it's got a long way to go.

{{00:04:45}}
But it's exciting.

{{00:04:46}}
I think the other thing that companies
can do is to really try to, and there

{{00:04:50}}
are legal limits on this sometimes,
but where you can, really have

{{00:04:53}}
those conversations about how people
want to work and allow them to grow

{{00:04:56}}
their careers and do the things that
they're good at, but also within some

{{00:05:00}}
boundaries and say, do you know what?

{{00:05:01}}
You don't have to be connected
to work at 10 o'clock at night.

{{00:05:04}}
You don't have to be going
to this conference in Sydney.

{{00:05:06}}
You can do that online.

{{00:05:08}}
So just trying to help
manage that for people.

{{00:05:11}}
So you've mentioned what companies
can do, what can governments

{{00:05:14}}
potentially do to help?

{{00:05:15}}
I think we're seeing some really
inspiring changes around the world, but

{{00:05:18}}
the most important thing, of course,
is access to affordable childcare.

{{00:05:21}}
The UK is terrible for this but lots
of other markets are much better.

{{00:05:25}}
And I think that's the really- so I
think two things: parental leave, yes.

{{00:05:28}}
But making sure that fathers take it.

{{00:05:29}}
So what we know is that the
more involved fathers are in

{{00:05:33}}
the early months and years, the
more likely they are to stay

{{00:05:35}}
involved with their children, the
better it is for the family unit.

{{00:05:38}}
So really pushing, paternity leave
is really, really important, and

{{00:05:41}}
equalising leave where we can perhaps
between parents or allowing them to

{{00:05:45}}
balance it in the way that they want.

{{00:05:46}}
And secondly, access to affordable
childcare is absolutely critical.

{{00:05:50}}
And I think countries are doing very
interesting things around the right

{{00:05:54}}
to disconnect and allowing people
to work more manageable working

{{00:05:58}}
days, which have rather spun out
of control in the last few years.

{{00:06:01}}
So what do parents who make
it work know that those

{{00:06:05}}
of the struggling don't?

{{00:06:07}}
So I think parents that make it work,
I'm always fascinated by them, you

{{00:06:10}}
know, what do they know that the
rest of us just don't really get?

{{00:06:13}}
I think the primary thing is to
really think about your household

{{00:06:16}}
as one unit and to go, whatever we
do has to work for this whole unit.

{{00:06:20}}
Not for one kid, not for one
partner, not for this kid.

{{00:06:23}}
It's like, how do we make
this whole thing stable and

{{00:06:25}}
operate really, really well?

{{00:06:27}}
And that informs all of your decisions
that might inform, whether your kids

{{00:06:30}}
go to the same school or different
schools, like you can build a lot of

{{00:06:33}}
complexity into your life accidentally.

{{00:06:35}}
How many clubs your kids do, whether
you are like really into every

{{00:06:38}}
single thing that they eat and
you're driving yourself crazy with

{{00:06:40}}
organic food, or whether actually
you might just say, do you know what?

{{00:06:44}}
I'm just going to let that go.

{{00:06:45}}
So really thinking through like the
implications of all the decisions

{{00:06:49}}
that they make and trying not to make
it more complicated for yourself,

{{00:06:52}}
and then focusing on the things you
want to get out of it, the pleasure,

{{00:06:55}}
the joy, the connection, you know,
really making sure that you schedule

{{00:06:59}}
that, think about that and invest
your time and energy in it as well.

{{00:07:02}}
I guess, the big question really is,
is it possible to have a successful

{{00:07:06}}
career and give your family the
attention that they deserve?

{{00:07:10}}
Yes, I think it is.

{{00:07:11}}
It's very difficult to do
it all at the same time.

{{00:07:13}}
And I think the mistake a lot
of us make is that- is to think

{{00:07:16}}
that we just have these very
short windows to achieve the

{{00:07:18}}
things that we want to achieve.

{{00:07:19}}
I think that there is a season for
everything, as somebody I interviewed

{{00:07:23}}
once put it, and that we can flex and
we can be more invested in our career

{{00:07:27}}
at certain points and more invested in
our kids, but we have to play the long

{{00:07:30}}
game if we're going to give appropriate
attention, I think, to both.

{{00:07:33}}
So just working out what those seasons
are for you and allowing yourself

{{00:07:37}}
a bit of time to roll with it.

{{00:07:38}}
But absolutely you can.

We can flex and we can be more
invested in our career at certain

points and more invested in our kids,
but we have to play the long game.

Well I think this is the most exciting
time in the whole time that I've

ever been working because previous
to the pandemic, lots of people who

were working parents were saying
nothing was really working for them.

That they were overwhelmed by
the demands of work and the

demands of running a household and
children, whether they're single

parents, or where there's two
adults in the household working.

And this has kind of released the most
incredible potential for people to

be able to drop children at school,
do a full day's work, and then maybe

have their partner pick them up or
manage their days during the week

so they can be present at the school
gate, more involved with their kids,

And I've interviewed lots of people
who say that actually they feel

that they're- they can become much
more senior in their career as

And I imagine this has changed
a lot since your book came out

Can you talk a little bit
about some of those changes?

I think when I wrote the book
in 2018, it was very much sort

of on the back of lean in,
everybody needs to work harder.

And the big thing that I wanted people
to take away is, look, the way that

we are working doesn't work for people
who have caring responsibilities.

And it isn't because you
are not trying hard enough.

You know, we set up the world
of sort of work really on a very

idealised version of a breadwinner
model where one parent, ie.

dad at that time, went out to
work and mum was at home caring

for kids and shopping and
cleaning and all those things.

And that world doesn't exist
for most people anymore.

So I think what's moved on is
that we've kind of- I think

we've all agreed that now it's,
that's been largely accepted.

And actually, where we are now is
we've kind of got a new way that

we might be able to make this
work to some extent at least.

I guess, what advice would
you have for parents trying to

I think you have to be very
honest about who you are

You know, if you want to be chief
executive, then me telling you to

put boundaries around your time
and change your working schedule,

is- you're just going to be
like no, I'm really ambitious.

So I think you have to be
very honest about who you are.

But I think you also, and I think
this is sometimes harder when your

children are very small, you have
to think quite long term about it.

You know, this is a very important
relationship and I see a lot of

professionals later on regret that
they didn't make more concessions

So making sure at every stage that
when you look back on this later,

will you've done what you think was
the right thing to do, and as long

as you think that you will have
done, you'll be absolutely fine.

But think about where are the
edges, where are the boundaries?

Are there fixed points for you that
you really want to do every day?

And just really move your schedule to
meet that and make the effort to do it.

It's interesting that you point
out that the person has to kind of

recognise what their ambitions are,
but does that mean that someone

who has ambitions, does that mean
they have to sort of give up?

Well, it means you would set
up your life differently.

If you say, look, I'm going to be chief
executive and I've got a couple of

kids, then you're going to be right,
it might be that for me, the important

thing is to do the school run on Friday
afternoon, see the kids and check in.

If somebody doesn't want to be chief
executive, just like, I don't know,

they're doing a job and they really
like doing whatever they're doing, they

might say, well, actually I'd like to
do that three or four times a week.

I think you can be a very good parent
and very senior, but you are going

to spend less time potentially, and
you've got to be okay with that.

And then you've got to put the
systems around that to make sure

that you are happy with who the kids
are spending time with, and that

you are happy with the amount of
time that you're spending doing it.

When we talk about diversity and
inclusion and really opening up the

types of roles that are possible
for people and especially women

in general typically didn't get
those higher level roles because

So, I guess are there ways in
which companies have to work with

I think there's two
things going on here.

One, and we've seen it around
Covid is the real rise of fathers.

And I think that's one of the
big changes since 2018, really

And a lot of the interviews that I do
now, men are much more aware of the

impact of their behaviour on their
partners and how they need to equalise

that if they're both going to be active
parents, which most people want to be

So for instance, I interviewed a
man recently who said I've realised

when I overwork that that damages
my wife's career because that means

So actually I have to have
boundaries in order for her to

So I think that has really changed,
and companies supporting that, because

previously we've had cultures where
if men wanted to do the school run,

people are like rolling their eyes
and like, don't you have a wife?

I think the other thing that companies
can do is to really try to, and there

Expert Insight

Mothers who work, fathers who stay at home - over the last century, and especially following the Covid-19 pandemic, there has been an undeniable cultural shift in how we view the relationship between work, parenthood, and traditional gender roles. Have new ways of working solved the professional vs. parent crisis once and for all?
Christine Armstrong, Researcher, Author, and Advisor on the future of work, sheds light on what parental barriers the business world still hasn't overcome, and why.

Family

paternity leave

Future of Work

work-life balance

Working Parents

Flexible Working

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Christine-iVBORw0KGg-934d2996c875ed17d5a98c711dec67fc.png

Christine Armstrong 

Researcher, Author and Advisor on the Future of Work

Find out what has changed about ways of working since 2018, and why working parents should find this a particularly exciting time.

New ways of working

Armstrong shares key advice for balancing work with caring responsibilities, and addresses the perceived conflict between professional ambition and parenthood.

Top tips for doing it all

The cultural shift in working parenthood we have seen over the past few years may not all be about flexible working. Discover how the 'rise of fathers' is impacting career progression for women.

The rise of fathers

Doing it all isn't possible without the support of companies and governments. Armstrong reveals the positive changes already happening around the world, and what more can be done to make working work for parents.


Is the world set up for working parents?

Wondering what those parents who make it work know that you don't? Is it possible to have a successful career and give your family the attention they deserve? Armstrong addresses the biggest questions working parents want to know. 