Name: NatWest at Sibos 2023 – Payments transformation and innovation
Uploaded: 2023-10-03T15:03:04.000Z
Duration: 574.57
Description: At the Sibos 2023 conference in Toronto, FinTech Futures sat down with Ian Povey, CIO Payments Services and Technology at NatWest, to discuss the key trends shaping the future of digital payments and how banks and Fintechs are looking to innovate in the space to meet evolving customer demands.

02-Ian Povey1.mp4

02-Ian Povey1.vtt

ENGLISH

{{00:00:06}}
This is FinTech Futures at Sibos and
I'm joined by Ian Povey of NatWest.

{{00:00:10}}
Ian, thank you so much for taking
the time out to speak with us.

{{00:00:12}}
No worries, thank you.

{{00:00:13}}
To get started, I'd like you to
give us a quick introduction of

{{00:00:14}}
yourself and your role at NatWest.

{{00:00:16}}
Yes, I'm the CIO of Payments Technology
for NatWest Group, which basically means

{{00:00:21}}
I look after all of the payment technology
for all the clearing streams end to end,

{{00:00:26}}
both from a change perspective and also
the runs and making sure we maintain

{{00:00:30}}
the operational resilience for our
customers and businesses across the UK.

{{00:00:34}}
Excellent, excellent.

{{00:00:34}}
And you're here to discuss payments
transformation innovations in

{{00:00:37}}
this space as well this week.

{{00:00:39}}
So to get started then what
are some of the key trends in

{{00:00:41}}
digital payments at the moment?

{{00:00:43}}
Yeah, and it's a highly relevant question
for Cybus itself, but even beyond this

{{00:00:47}}
event because payments themselves are
increasing in velocity, and when we

{{00:00:52}}
look at the data that's within the
payment messages as well, so we come

{{00:00:56}}
back into things like standards, these
trends As we look at the acceleration

{{00:01:02}}
of volume and also the proliferation
of options, of forcing a real change in

{{00:01:08}}
the technologies, the architecture, but
also the business operations processes

{{00:01:12}}
for customers and making sure that they
have that positive digital experience

{{00:01:15}}
at the front end, whether it be on
their cell phone or whether that be

{{00:01:18}}
on a, laptop or device in work even.

{{00:01:21}}
So these, that's one basis for the trend.

{{00:01:23}}
But then you get into The more front end
experiences and seeing the optionality

{{00:01:28}}
that's being provided for, payments
being accepted by merchants, so the likes

{{00:01:34}}
of now turning the mobile phone into
a device as a point of sale on glass.

{{00:01:41}}
And whilst that's an evolution,
and we've seen some of these trends

{{00:01:45}}
earlier in the last decade even, it's
basically taking us to a point where

{{00:01:51}}
payments are universal wherever you
are and with whoever you're with.

{{00:01:54}}
And that's going to be a very interesting
dynamic to unfold over the next few years.

{{00:01:58}}
But I think the real thing that we
need to not lose sight of is what

{{00:02:03}}
is the data agenda that is really
humming through payments and what

{{00:02:07}}
that will unlock in the future for
other opportunities and offerings.

{{00:02:13}}
Either secure payments for customers
and protect them, through to providing

{{00:02:17}}
value added services that are more
in the context of the experience that

{{00:02:21}}
a consumer and or business is in.

{{00:02:24}}
Do any use cases and practical
applications as well in the

{{00:02:26}}
payment space that have really
caught your eye at the moment?

{{00:02:28}}
Yeah, there's a couple that probably don't
get as much visibility, but I'm one that

{{00:02:33}}
looks across all of the different streams.

{{00:02:35}}
In the context of more consumer retail
payments, what I mentioned about

{{00:02:40}}
being able to make a payment on a, By
tapping another person's cell phone

{{00:02:44}}
is one clear advantage and obviously
it's going to help reduce the cost

{{00:02:48}}
for the industry and particularly
for smaller businesses as well.

{{00:02:51}}
But then at the other end of the
spectrum we see companies like

{{00:02:53}}
Pexipay who had their origins in
Australia but are now in the UK.

{{00:02:58}}
The seventh connection to the Bank
of England, but it's a dedicated

{{00:03:02}}
payment network for a particular
asset class, in this case, property.

{{00:03:05}}
So looking at the manual processes
in, property settlement and, exchange

{{00:03:10}}
and being able to bring that into
a combined single payment message.

{{00:03:13}}
So those types of developments do catch my
eye because they they're tangible and that

{{00:03:19}}
also demonstrates what we can be doing
with new message standards and also just.

{{00:03:23}}
Thinking a bit more laterally about
the processes that surround payments

{{00:03:26}}
and not just the payment itself.

{{00:03:28}}
On that front, how have customer
expectations of payments changed

{{00:03:32}}
recently, and especially given the
rate of change in tech, but also given

{{00:03:36}}
the proliferation of the companies and
different offerings that they can go for?

{{00:03:39}}
Yeah, and the first point there is
we're all customers of payments.

{{00:03:43}}
And we need to, particularly
in my role and my team as well,

{{00:03:47}}
it's about encouraging us to just
pause and think of that experience

{{00:03:51}}
we're actually having personally.

{{00:03:53}}
But I talk about the Amazon effect and
also obviously the time through COVID,

{{00:03:57}}
there's been a lot of re education
of digital technologies for people to

{{00:04:01}}
be used and become comfortable with.

{{00:04:03}}
And that...

{{00:04:04}}
We're seeing through QR codes on the one
hand, which we never thought would take

{{00:04:07}}
off in more Western countries and so on,
but equally it's really that expectation

{{00:04:15}}
of transparency of the payment.

{{00:04:17}}
I know where it is and that's been
successful, that I'm protected

{{00:04:20}}
when I make that payment and I can
do it whenever I want and that's

{{00:04:25}}
really been driven by the ability
to just click and have it delivered.

{{00:04:30}}
With the growing number of options
available now, what kind of trends

{{00:04:32}}
are you seeing when it comes to
customers and how they're choosing

{{00:04:35}}
to pay now, both individual customers
but also businesses as well?

{{00:04:38}}
Convenience starts with this one,
and I think sometimes convenience...

{{00:04:43}}
is psychologically stronger
than even whether they trust

{{00:04:46}}
the party in the first instance.

{{00:04:47}}
And I'm talking particularly
at the front end.

{{00:04:50}}
And that's where the banking industry
and incumbents more broadly need

{{00:04:54}}
to not ignore, and we're not.

{{00:04:56}}
To be a digital champion, you need
to be learning from everybody.

{{00:04:59}}
And seeing how customers engage
with these other platforms, whether

{{00:05:04}}
it be for cross border payments,
whether it be for domestic business

{{00:05:08}}
to customer type interactions.

{{00:05:12}}
So with those types of things we
need to start to encourage trust to

{{00:05:17}}
come into the model because otherwise
we start to see the trends in fraud

{{00:05:20}}
and that becomes a negative outcome
for everybody at the end of the day.

{{00:05:25}}
So it is really looking at it in that
lens that we need to continue to focus on.

{{00:05:30}}
Excellent.

{{00:05:30}}


{{00:05:30}}
And you mentioned fraud there.

{{00:05:32}}
Certain types of, for APP
fraud particularly has been a

{{00:05:34}}
major concern now for a while.

{{00:05:36}}
What can banks be doing
more of to tackle that?

{{00:05:38}}
I think banks are doing a lot to be fair.

{{00:05:40}}
Yeah.

{{00:05:40}}
And, customer protection is
a core part of what we do.

{{00:05:44}}
It's back to that trust point that I made
earlier and whether it be responding to

{{00:05:51}}
ensuring that we compensate customers
if they are a victim of fraud, but also

{{00:05:55}}
continuing to dial up how we can support
and educate and give them that visibility

{{00:06:00}}
of things which may entrap them be it on
social platforms or otherwise, whereas

{{00:06:04}}
a lot of this fraud is originating
and really Trying to also work with

{{00:06:08}}
the industry itself, again, the social
platforms and those big techs to ensure

{{00:06:14}}
that they see their own accountability
as part of that initiated experience

{{00:06:18}}
through to the end to end and where the
funds come out of the bank account itself.

{{00:06:22}}
And that is going to be a long piece of
work because payments is not an island

{{00:06:26}}
and there's lots of stakeholders in
that dynamic and, but we've all got to

{{00:06:31}}
work together to actually close that.

{{00:06:32}}
Let that down.

{{00:06:33}}
There is no competition in fraud.

{{00:06:35}}
Excellent.

{{00:06:35}}
And you mentioned Big Tech there as well.

{{00:06:37}}
NatWest is one of the banks
to partner with Apple for the

{{00:06:39}}
tap to pay recently as well.

{{00:06:41}}
Can you tell us a little
bit more about that?

{{00:06:42}}
And I guess Big Tech's foray
into the payment space as well.

{{00:06:46}}
What are your thoughts on that?

{{00:06:47}}
And this is where partnership is key.

{{00:06:49}}
And we really need to continue to
recognize where the strengths lie in

{{00:06:54}}
organizations and where the opportunities
also come to test and learn with another

{{00:07:01}}
experience and being able to experiment
even with a partnership or experiment

{{00:07:05}}
within the organization as we do with
various hackathons and the like, gives us

{{00:07:09}}
that ability to ensure that we are meeting
the needs of our customers, be they

{{00:07:14}}
individuals, business or even government.

{{00:07:18}}
A lot of that will continue
to be through partnerships.

{{00:07:21}}
We can't be spread so thin to be able
to solve for all, particularly with this

{{00:07:25}}
increase in optionality that's occurring.

{{00:07:27}}
And let's be fair there's some great
user experiences out there for people.

{{00:07:31}}
And we need to remain, or will remain,
the backbone of those experiences.

{{00:07:38}}
But if we can integrate
that in further into the...

{{00:07:42}}
The digital experience with the
bank and looking at how we continue

{{00:07:44}}
to use the data again to protect
the customer but also to look at

{{00:07:48}}
what else could be useful for them.

{{00:07:50}}
That's the context that we
need to continue to work on.

{{00:07:53}}
Excellent.

{{00:07:53}}
And just to finish off how do you
see the payment space evolving

{{00:07:56}}
then in maybe the near term future?

{{00:07:58}}
Have you got anything else at
NatWest that's in the pipeline?

{{00:08:00}}
Yeah, Obviously the first topic we
need to lean in on there is things

{{00:08:04}}
like CBDC and the evolution and the
interlinking that will need to occur

{{00:08:09}}
and that's certainly something which
we'll continue to experiment with

{{00:08:12}}
but also plan from an architectural
standpoint and whilst I'm glad I

{{00:08:17}}
always talk about the technology side.

{{00:08:18}}
I always reinforce and remind people
that this is about product and

{{00:08:21}}
proposition and process as well.

{{00:08:24}}
So all those evolutions that are
definitely going to happen need to be

{{00:08:29}}
designed for and catered for in the
construct of the bank as it is today.

{{00:08:33}}
But also recognising that
these evolutions of product and

{{00:08:38}}
capabilities are not for everyone.

{{00:08:40}}
So it's again looking at understanding
who's going to get the value and what.

{{00:08:44}}
A time horizon that's going to occur.

{{00:08:46}}
So that's one angle.

{{00:08:47}}
I think the other one, which is probably
more topical from a Sibos standpoint,

{{00:08:51}}
or equally topical, is what do we do
with the foundations of ISO 20022?

{{00:08:56}}
Because...

{{00:08:57}}
There's a lot of work still to look at
what are the opportunities to exploit

{{00:09:01}}
that, be it commercially or otherwise,
how we continue to harmonise the

{{00:09:05}}
standards between domestic networks
and the cross border networks, so that

{{00:09:09}}
we ensure that, again, all supports
that evolution of payments and removes

{{00:09:14}}
that friction, but not to the extent
that we actually also encourage fraud.

{{00:09:18}}
So it's getting that balance, and
that's something which is a near term

{{00:09:21}}
problem we need to solve for as well.

{{00:09:23}}
Excellent, work.

{{00:09:23}}
Thank you so much again Ian for
taking the time out to speak

{{00:09:25}}
with us, it's been a pleasure.

{{00:09:27}}
No worries, thank you very much.

{{00:09:28}}
Thank you.

This is FinTech Futures at Sibos and
I'm joined by Ian Povey of NatWest.

Ian, thank you so much for taking
the time out to speak with us.

To get started, I'd like you to
give us a quick introduction of

Yes, I'm the CIO of Payments Technology
for NatWest Group, which basically means

I look after all of the payment technology
for all the clearing streams end to end,

both from a change perspective and also
the runs and making sure we maintain

the operational resilience for our
customers and businesses across the UK.

And you're here to discuss payments
transformation innovations in

So to get started then what
are some of the key trends in

Yeah, and it's a highly relevant question
for Cybus itself, but even beyond this

event because payments themselves are
increasing in velocity, and when we

look at the data that's within the
payment messages as well, so we come

back into things like standards, these
trends As we look at the acceleration

of volume and also the proliferation
of options, of forcing a real change in

the technologies, the architecture, but
also the business operations processes

for customers and making sure that they
have that positive digital experience

at the front end, whether it be on
their cell phone or whether that be

So these, that's one basis for the trend.

But then you get into The more front end
experiences and seeing the optionality

that's being provided for, payments
being accepted by merchants, so the likes

of now turning the mobile phone into
a device as a point of sale on glass.

And whilst that's an evolution,
and we've seen some of these trends

earlier in the last decade even, it's
basically taking us to a point where

payments are universal wherever you
are and with whoever you're with.

And that's going to be a very interesting
dynamic to unfold over the next few years.

But I think the real thing that we
need to not lose sight of is what

is the data agenda that is really
humming through payments and what

that will unlock in the future for
other opportunities and offerings.

Either secure payments for customers
and protect them, through to providing

value added services that are more
in the context of the experience that

Do any use cases and practical
applications as well in the

payment space that have really
caught your eye at the moment?

Yeah, there's a couple that probably don't
get as much visibility, but I'm one that

looks across all of the different streams.

In the context of more consumer retail
payments, what I mentioned about

being able to make a payment on a, By
tapping another person's cell phone

is one clear advantage and obviously
it's going to help reduce the cost

for the industry and particularly
for smaller businesses as well.

But then at the other end of the
spectrum we see companies like

Pexipay who had their origins in
Australia but are now in the UK.

The seventh connection to the Bank
of England, but it's a dedicated

payment network for a particular
asset class, in this case, property.

So looking at the manual processes
in, property settlement and, exchange

and being able to bring that into
a combined single payment message.

So those types of developments do catch my
eye because they they're tangible and that

also demonstrates what we can be doing
with new message standards and also just.

Thinking a bit more laterally about
the processes that surround payments

On that front, how have customer
expectations of payments changed

recently, and especially given the
rate of change in tech, but also given

the proliferation of the companies and
different offerings that they can go for?

Yeah, and the first point there is
we're all customers of payments.

And we need to, particularly
in my role and my team as well,

it's about encouraging us to just
pause and think of that experience

But I talk about the Amazon effect and
also obviously the time through COVID,

there's been a lot of re education
of digital technologies for people to

We're seeing through QR codes on the one
hand, which we never thought would take

off in more Western countries and so on,
but equally it's really that expectation

I know where it is and that's been
successful, that I'm protected

when I make that payment and I can
do it whenever I want and that's

really been driven by the ability
to just click and have it delivered.

With the growing number of options
available now, what kind of trends

are you seeing when it comes to
customers and how they're choosing

to pay now, both individual customers
but also businesses as well?

Convenience starts with this one,
and I think sometimes convenience...

is psychologically stronger
than even whether they trust

And I'm talking particularly
at the front end.

And that's where the banking industry
and incumbents more broadly need

To be a digital champion, you need
to be learning from everybody.

And seeing how customers engage
with these other platforms, whether

it be for cross border payments,
whether it be for domestic business

So with those types of things we
need to start to encourage trust to

come into the model because otherwise
we start to see the trends in fraud

and that becomes a negative outcome
for everybody at the end of the day.

So it is really looking at it in that
lens that we need to continue to focus on.

Certain types of, for APP
fraud particularly has been a

What can banks be doing
more of to tackle that?

I think banks are doing a lot to be fair.

And, customer protection is
a core part of what we do.

It's back to that trust point that I made
earlier and whether it be responding to

ensuring that we compensate customers
if they are a victim of fraud, but also

FinTech Futures

Expert Insight

At the Sibos 2023 conference in Toronto, FinTech Futures sat down with Ian Povey, CIO Payments Services and Technology at NatWest, to discuss the key trends shaping the future of digital payments and how banks and Fintechs are looking to innovate in the space to meet evolving customer demands.