Name: Building sustainably in developing countries
Uploaded: 2023-01-11T13:55:19.988Z
Duration: 729.64

Miguel Orejuela_v4 14.12.mp4

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Greenbuild 365

Miguel Orejuela_v4 14.12.vtt

English

{{00:00:00}}
I think that in few years, everybody
in the world will have this good

{{00:00:05}}
sense about the equilibrium and
the balance between environment and

{{00:00:10}}
human habitat, which is ecology.

{{00:00:14}}
So I think this responsibility is not
only to create better infrastructure.

{{00:00:18}}
This responsibility is how you
teach people to use it better.

{{00:00:32}}
My name is Miguel Orejuela.

{{00:00:34}}
I am the Chief Operations Officer for
CircularLab, which is a consultant

{{00:00:39}}
office based in Bogota, and we are
experts in structuring, and designing,

{{00:00:44}}
and operating facilities in Colombia.

{{00:00:48}}
Can you tell me what are the main
challenges to the construction of

{{00:00:51}}
more sustainable buildings and, more
sustainable infrastructure, in developing

{{00:00:55}}
countries and emerging markets?

{{00:00:57}}
When you talk about these
challenges, I think the most

{{00:01:02}}
important one right now is culture.

{{00:01:04}}
It's how you can understand the
needs of the communities around the

{{00:01:09}}
projects and incorporate those needs
into the structuring and the design

{{00:01:15}}
of these buildings and facilities.

{{00:01:17}}
So, they cannot only serve the people
which they are designed for, but

{{00:01:22}}
also to attend some of these needs.

{{00:01:25}}
In South America, sometimes you
build very high end buildings

{{00:01:31}}
in not so high end communities.

{{00:01:33}}
And these amenities serve well
the building users, but can

{{00:01:39}}
also serve the community around.

{{00:01:41}}
So that sense that you're talking
about there is kind of social equity,

{{00:01:44}}
which is one arm of sustainability,
but obviously there are environmental

{{00:01:48}}
concerns when we're talking about
building sustainably, and how you

{{00:01:52}}
build for the future in that sense.

{{00:01:54}}
Is expertise an issue in some
of the developing countries?

{{00:01:57}}
And if so, can you just
ship that expertise in?

{{00:02:01}}
In the Colombian case, we have the
Swiss corporation, we have the German

{{00:02:06}}
corporation, we have the UN corporation,
and there is a lot of programs.

{{00:02:12}}
There are a lot of programs that help
out with sustainable development.

{{00:02:17}}
I mean, the World Bank, IBD, and
there are a lot of resources,

{{00:02:25}}
and there are financial resources
and technical resources.

{{00:02:29}}
The problem is, when you bring these
experts to the areas of development, they

{{00:02:38}}
find out that they're ill prepared to deal
with the social reality of those areas.

{{00:02:43}}
Therefore, some community work has to
be done to spearhead these initiatives.

{{00:02:49}}
So, in order to answer your question, I
would say expertise is very important,

{{00:02:55}}
but it is fundamental to have that
expertise channelled by some social

{{00:03:02}}
work in ground, so the community
and the experts' interactions can

{{00:03:08}}
be potentialised and these alliances
can be forged and be useful.

{{00:03:13}}
So with that in mind, is there a sort
of guiding set of general principles

{{00:03:17}}
that would work globally when you're
talking about building sustainably,

{{00:03:20}}
or is every local case very different?

{{00:03:22}}
I'm a big promoter of the concept of
let's not talk about environment, let's

{{00:03:26}}
talk about ecology because ecology,
comprehensive environment, but also the

{{00:03:33}}
social interaction into that environment.

{{00:03:36}}
I think, if we put in like a rating
system, or we can use any methodology

{{00:03:46}}
to structure sustainability into a
building design and construction.

{{00:03:53}}
The technical aspect like energy
efficiency, MEP specialties, and

{{00:04:01}}
water consumption, all those things
can be multiplied and implemented in

{{00:04:08}}
several projects all over the world.

{{00:04:11}}
But, how do you interact
with the community around?

{{00:04:15}}
And make that building serve
its purpose and satisfy the

{{00:04:18}}
needs of the surrounding areas?

{{00:04:21}}
That's very particular of each
and every town where you build.

{{00:04:27}}
And that happens not only in
developing countries, but also

{{00:04:30}}
here because it's the interaction.

{{00:04:33}}
I mean, if you have a sustainable
building, that's great.

{{00:04:37}}
But if that building doesn't interact
with the city or the surrounding urban

{{00:04:43}}
environment where it's being put in, well
that sustainability, is it sustainability?

{{00:04:49}}
I don't think so.

{{00:04:50}}
You'll have a whole bunch of efficient
buildings doing their own thing.

{{00:04:54}}
So you need a group of sustainable
buildings working together with the

{{00:04:59}}
community to have a sustainable city.

{{00:05:01}}
And I think that's the big difference.

{{00:05:04}}
Can we talk specifically about
projects that you've worked on?

{{00:05:06}}
Because you've worked both in the US and
in Columbia on sustainable buildings.

{{00:05:10}}
Can you talk about some of
the similarities and some of

{{00:05:12}}
the differences between two?

{{00:05:13}}
Sure.

{{00:05:13}}
In my career, I had the opportunity
to work for a construction management

{{00:05:18}}
company in New Jersey, here in the US.

{{00:05:23}}
And, we built education facilities
for universities, schools, and

{{00:05:29}}
as well some sports facilities.

{{00:05:31}}
The big difference between sustainability
and conventional projects here in

{{00:05:35}}
the US is how the buildings perform,
and how can you, how could you

{{00:05:40}}
extract metrics in real time so you
can give feedback to the owners and

{{00:05:48}}
they can better their operations.

{{00:05:51}}
Compared to Colombia, I mean the
cultural aspect of the projects

{{00:05:56}}
is a big difference between the US
projects because as I mentioned it to

{{00:06:02}}
you before this interview, in the US
when you build a mall or you build a

{{00:06:07}}
building of any kind, it is a building.

{{00:06:11}}
That building is gonna have users.

{{00:06:13}}
That building is another
building more in the city.

{{00:06:17}}
When you build a large scale
project in Colombia, you're

{{00:06:21}}
not only building a building.

{{00:06:23}}
You're building a facility,
you're building services, you're

{{00:06:26}}
giving people employment, you're
changing the local economy.

{{00:06:32}}
You're changing the
local dynamic of traffic.

{{00:06:35}}
You're changing everything because
cities are not that big in Colombia.

{{00:06:40}}
And if you build this large scale project,
I mean the whole social and commercial

{{00:06:45}}
dynamic of the city is going to change.

{{00:06:47}}
So that's the big difference.

{{00:06:49}}
Here, you design for performance, in
Latin America in general, you not only

{{00:06:55}}
have to deal with performance, but you
also have to take into consideration

{{00:06:59}}
community needs, community interaction,
social equity, all those things.

{{00:07:04}}
You mentioned the economy.

{{00:07:06}}
Poorer countries often have done the least
to contribute to climate change, but they

{{00:07:11}}
kind of have the worst outcomes from it.

{{00:07:14}}
A lot of money has been pledged from
richer countries in recent years

{{00:07:16}}
to help with people wanting to do
infrastructure projects that will

{{00:07:19}}
help to mitigate against climate
change or adapt to climate change.

{{00:07:23}}
Is it enough?

{{00:07:25}}
Well, I think it lacks focus, because most
of these developing projects are getting

{{00:07:34}}
money to reduce their carbon emissions.

{{00:07:38}}
But if you look at their gross
product index, the GPI, I mean, they

{{00:07:46}}
don't create a lot of emissions.

{{00:07:50}}
They don't generate them.

{{00:07:52}}
So why are you investing in something
that, if you look at the macro picture, is

{{00:08:01}}
a little grain of sand in the big beach.

{{00:08:04}}
So, these programs lack focus.

{{00:08:07}}
You shouldn't be investing in Latin
American countries to improve energy

{{00:08:13}}
performance and reduce carbon emissions.

{{00:08:16}}
You should be investing in these
countries to promote the growth of the

{{00:08:19}}
forestry, to promote the preservation
of the jungle and the tropical canopy.

{{00:08:26}}
Because, our countries
don't generate much.

{{00:08:29}}
I mean, we have an energy crisis
like everybody else, but that's

{{00:08:33}}
a different whole story than
emissions because we need better

{{00:08:37}}
ways to diversify our energy intake.

{{00:08:41}}
But our emissions output is very low.

{{00:08:44}}
We are the catalyst of the
other emissions in the world.

{{00:08:49}}
So, you can invest and throw money at
as many new efficient projects have

{{00:08:56}}
you won in infrastructure, but you
were never going to achieve that goal.

{{00:09:01}}
You should be investing in our countries
for bio preservation, the ecosystems

{{00:09:08}}
preservation, improving and protecting the
jungles, the Amazon, other things that are

{{00:09:15}}
more into growing the catalyst environment
of the contamination of all our countries.

{{00:09:21}}
So in your opinion, whose responsibility
is it to make sure that these new

{{00:09:25}}
building and infrastructure projects
are done in the right way for

{{00:09:29}}
the environment that they're in?

{{00:09:31}}
I think it's a
responsibility of all of us.

{{00:09:35}}
And when I say us, I'm talking
about public, and private companies.

{{00:09:41}}
But, it's not a matter of,
invest just in infrastructure.

{{00:09:48}}
This responsibility is how you
teach people to use it better.

{{00:09:53}}
How you teach people to relate to others,
this message and how you change the minds

{{00:10:01}}
of everybody around these cities that are
being created and these urban settlements

{{00:10:06}}
that keep growing and growing and growing
because, I mean, there is a reality.

{{00:10:10}}
We keep multiplying as humans,
and we only have one planet.

{{00:10:14}}
So, it's not a matter of how you use
it properly, it's a matter of how you

{{00:10:20}}
change the culture of the people to
take advantage of what is given in the

{{00:10:25}}
infrastructure, to use it the right way.

{{00:10:28}}
How optimistic are you that as
we continue to build, the world

{{00:10:32}}
becomes more urbanised, there's more
construction, that we will do it the

{{00:10:35}}
right way and the sustainable way?

{{00:10:37}}
I am very optimistic, that's why I'm here.

{{00:10:40}}
Because, every day you have more
professionals thinking about

{{00:10:46}}
how to develop better projects.

{{00:10:49}}
And these cultural interactions
of these better projects is every

{{00:10:56}}
single day taken more importance.

{{00:10:58}}
And that's because, thanks to the
social network, everybody's more

{{00:11:07}}
conscious about what other people
are going to talk about my project.

{{00:11:11}}
And that talk on the social network
doesn't come from a prepared

{{00:11:15}}
speech or anything like that.

{{00:11:17}}
It comes from the direct
experience that other people

{{00:11:20}}
have with that infrastructure.

{{00:11:22}}
And I think that's very honest, and
honesty can be very brutal as well.

{{00:11:27}}
So we don't like that, we don't
want that brutal feedback.

{{00:11:30}}
We worry about, okay, I'm going
to make this building how I make

{{00:11:36}}
this building work nice with the
environment where I'm putting it.

{{00:11:41}}
How can it provide new public spaces,
how can restore habitats, how can

{{00:11:47}}
give services to the people around,
and how can this building become a

{{00:11:51}}
beacon of abundancy for everybody
that is a stakeholder of the project?

{{00:11:57}}
Brilliant.

{{00:11:58}}
Thank you so much for your time.

{{00:12:00}}
Oh, thank you very much
for your consideration.

{{00:12:02}}
I appreciate it.

I think that in few years, everybody
in the world will have this good

sense about the equilibrium and
the balance between environment and

So I think this responsibility is not
only to create better infrastructure.

This responsibility is how you
teach people to use it better.

I am the Chief Operations Officer for
CircularLab, which is a consultant

office based in Bogota, and we are
experts in structuring, and designing,

Can you tell me what are the main
challenges to the construction of

more sustainable buildings and, more
sustainable infrastructure, in developing

When you talk about these
challenges, I think the most

It's how you can understand the
needs of the communities around the

projects and incorporate those needs
into the structuring and the design

So, they cannot only serve the people
which they are designed for, but

In South America, sometimes you
build very high end buildings

And these amenities serve well
the building users, but can

So that sense that you're talking
about there is kind of social equity,

which is one arm of sustainability,
but obviously there are environmental

concerns when we're talking about
building sustainably, and how you

Is expertise an issue in some
of the developing countries?

And if so, can you just
ship that expertise in?

In the Colombian case, we have the
Swiss corporation, we have the German

corporation, we have the UN corporation,
and there is a lot of programs.

There are a lot of programs that help
out with sustainable development.

I mean, the World Bank, IBD, and
there are a lot of resources,

and there are financial resources
and technical resources.

The problem is, when you bring these
experts to the areas of development, they

find out that they're ill prepared to deal
with the social reality of those areas.

Therefore, some community work has to
be done to spearhead these initiatives.

So, in order to answer your question, I
would say expertise is very important,

but it is fundamental to have that
expertise channelled by some social

work in ground, so the community
and the experts' interactions can

be potentialised and these alliances
can be forged and be useful.

So with that in mind, is there a sort
of guiding set of general principles

that would work globally when you're
talking about building sustainably,

I'm a big promoter of the concept of
let's not talk about environment, let's

talk about ecology because ecology,
comprehensive environment, but also the

social interaction into that environment.

I think, if we put in like a rating
system, or we can use any methodology

to structure sustainability into a
building design and construction.

The technical aspect like energy
efficiency, MEP specialties, and

water consumption, all those things
can be multiplied and implemented in

But, how do you interact
with the community around?

And make that building serve
its purpose and satisfy the

That's very particular of each
and every town where you build.

And that happens not only in
developing countries, but also

I mean, if you have a sustainable
building, that's great.

But if that building doesn't interact
with the city or the surrounding urban

environment where it's being put in, well
that sustainability, is it sustainability?

You'll have a whole bunch of efficient
buildings doing their own thing.

So you need a group of sustainable
buildings working together with the

Can we talk specifically about
projects that you've worked on?

Because you've worked both in the US and
in Columbia on sustainable buildings.

Can you talk about some of
the similarities and some of

In my career, I had the opportunity
to work for a construction management

And, we built education facilities
for universities, schools, and

The big difference between sustainability
and conventional projects here in

the US is how the buildings perform,
and how can you, how could you

extract metrics in real time so you
can give feedback to the owners and

Compared to Colombia, I mean the
cultural aspect of the projects

is a big difference between the US
projects because as I mentioned it to

you before this interview, in the US
when you build a mall or you build a

That building is another
building more in the city.

When you build a large scale
project in Colombia, you're

You're building a facility,
you're building services, you're

giving people employment, you're
changing the local economy.

You're changing the
local dynamic of traffic.

You're changing everything because
cities are not that big in Colombia.

And if you build this large scale project,
I mean the whole social and commercial

Here, you design for performance, in
Latin America in general, you not only

have to deal with performance, but you
also have to take into consideration

community needs, community interaction,
social equity, all those things.

Poorer countries often have done the least
to contribute to climate change, but they

Expert Insight

Building towards a low-carbon, sustainable future is a global challenge. Poorer countries have often been the lowest emitters of carbon emissions, but are now suffering the worst effects of climate change. So how can we make sure developing countries build and grow in a way that allows them to adapt to climate change and mitigate its effects?
Miguel Orejuela Duarte who is recognized among his peers for his participation in the development of green public policy, education programs and sustainability standards in Colombia share his ideas with us. 

Sustainability

Sustainable Design

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Miguel Angel Orejuela Duarte

Consultant in Construction and Sustainable Development

Besides financial and technical knowledge,  good communication is fundamental to understanding communities' needs and to bring more purpose to the construction. 


The challenges of sustainable construction in developing and emerging countries

For Orejuela, building methodologies can be implemented anywhere, but what makes the difference is understanding the interaction between the environment and local communities. Sustainable buildings need to work with their surroundings to become sustainable cities. 


The guidelines and principles of sustainable construction 

Orejuela shares his experiences in the US and Colombia, explaining how the local conditions dictate the focus of the project. 

 Similarities and differences between projects in Colombia and USA

Lack of focus is the main issue when it comes to investment, according to Orejuela. As an example, he explains where and how he thinks money should be invested in Latin America.


Is the financial help being offered to poorer countries enough?

Responsibility for sustainable construction lies with many. Orejuela reveals the importance of educating people to use the buildings in the right way.
