Name: Socure at Money20/20 USA 2023 – Fighting first-party fraud
Uploaded: 2023-11-09T12:01:33.697Z
Duration: 595.03
Description: At the Money20/20 USA 2023 conference in Las Vegas, FinTech Futures sat down with Johnny Ayers, founder and CEO of Socure, to discuss the launch of the company’s Sigma Identity Fraud solution and how the offering can help firms reduce the risk of first-party fraud.

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ENGLISH

{{00:00:04}}
Hi, I'm Heather Sugg reporting
from Money 20/20 USA.

{{00:00:08}}
Today, I am happy to share that we
have Johnny Ayres with us from Socure.

{{00:00:11}}
We are going to be talking about
the ever present topic of fraud,

{{00:00:14}}
and specifically, first party fraud.

{{00:00:17}}
Johnny, you and Socure have been known
for third party fraud and synthetic

{{00:00:22}}
ID fraud, and you have launched a
new product for first party fraud.

{{00:00:26}}
Tell us a little more about it.

{{00:00:27}}
Yeah, thank you.

{{00:00:28}}
Today we launch our Sigma Identity
Fraud solution, specifically

{{00:00:32}}
targeting first party fraud.

{{00:00:34}}
This challenge is something that's
pervasive across all digital banks,

{{00:00:37}}
financial services, merchants, where
folks are unfortunately repeat abusing

{{00:00:43}}
account by account to a tune of almost
a hundred billion dollars in losses.

{{00:00:47}}
And so we have developed a
consortium that is pulling together

{{00:00:50}}
many of the largest players.

{{00:00:52}}
With about 45 percent overlap between
accounts to contribute their known bad

{{00:00:58}}
their repeat abuser their closed account
data, which is gonna enable us to stop

{{00:01:02}}
first party fraud at scale and basically
take all the amazing analytics, the

{{00:01:07}}
the amazing data science talent that
we have in solving KYC and solving

{{00:01:10}}
identity fraud and synthetic fraud
and apply it to this new, very rapidly

{{00:01:14}}
growing type of first party fraud.

{{00:01:17}}
One of the things we all know about
fraud is that it takes a village,

{{00:01:19}}
and I understand that what you're
doing is building a consortium

{{00:01:22}}
for this first party approach.

{{00:01:23}}
Can you tell us how you're
doing that and how it will look?

{{00:01:25}}
Definitely.

{{00:01:26}}
So the consortium approach is
something we've really taken to how

{{00:01:29}}
we develop most of our products.

{{00:01:31}}
Our identity fraud, our synthetic
fraud, we have the largest database of

{{00:01:35}}
known good and known bad identities,
so a tune of a couple billion outcomes.

{{00:01:40}}
When we think about first party
fraud this is really a, about kind

{{00:01:45}}
of behavioral signals and repeat
behaviors of consumers that are

{{00:01:48}}
moving institution, toin institution
with their own identities, with an

{{00:01:52}}
intent to defraud that institution.

{{00:01:55}}
We've seen that, whether it's in a
depository account or a line about money

{{00:01:59}}
account coming outta an ATM or even
folks that have no intent to ever repay

{{00:02:05}}
in a, buy now pay later transaction.

{{00:02:07}}
The ability to look at how these
consumers are behaving at scale,

{{00:02:11}}
how these consumers are abusing
and attacking a lot of consumer

{{00:02:15}}
regulations is, enabling us a level
of visibility to stop these attackers.

{{00:02:21}}
Maybe they hit one or two
institutions, but they're not

{{00:02:23}}
going to be able to hit ten.

{{00:02:24}}
And the scale of the network that
we're launching with and certainly

{{00:02:28}}
the partners that we have, we're
really excited about attacking this.

{{00:02:32}}
This problem that unfortunately has such
negative ramifications on good consumers

{{00:02:36}}
because so many protections and blockers
are having to be put in front of them to

{{00:02:41}}
stop these unfortunate repeat abusers.

{{00:02:44}}
So we're really excited about the,
Socure Consortium and our ability to

{{00:02:48}}
pull together these, really amazing
partners and really launch this in

{{00:02:53}}
something we believe is going to get
really massive scale and have a put

{{00:02:56}}
a big dent in this hundred billion
dollar first party fraud problem.

{{00:03:01}}
Can you share more about some of
the partners that are involved,

{{00:03:03}}
or who you'd like to get involved?

{{00:03:05}}
Absolutely.

{{00:03:06}}
One of the things at SoQia that we've had
the luxury and benefit from building is

{{00:03:10}}
we have pretty much every major consumer
FinTech, almost every major bank, to the

{{00:03:16}}
tune of about 2, 000 customers across
really every consumer based vertical.

{{00:03:20}}
And specifically for this launch
we've initially focused on a

{{00:03:24}}
number of the largest digital
bank and financial institutions.

{{00:03:27}}
Partners like Green Dot, SoFi, Public,
IngoMoney and a number of other tier one

{{00:03:33}}
partners of ours to enable us to look
at the overlap across these customers.

{{00:03:38}}
We see 45 percent overlap across these
different providers, and we do see...

{{00:03:44}}
Unfortunately individuals hopping
institution to institution, committing

{{00:03:48}}
fraud one after another And we're very,
fortunate to get to, to co innovate to

{{00:03:54}}
co invest and co build with a number
of these amazing partners of ours, and

{{00:03:58}}
already have lined up and, have folks
contributing, including the largest buy

{{00:04:02}}
now, pay later providers, the largest
investment manager platforms and so

{{00:04:07}}
we, believe we're really just just
getting started here with this launch.

{{00:04:12}}
Very nice.

{{00:04:13}}
Now one of the areas I'm excited to
dive into with you is the research

{{00:04:16}}
you've done for first party fraud.

{{00:04:18}}
Why don't you tell us about that?

{{00:04:19}}
Definitely.

{{00:04:20}}
So as a part of the consortium
launch, we also launched our what

{{00:04:24}}
we believe to be the largest first
party fraud survey results and

{{00:04:27}}
analysis on first party fraud and how
Americans and your everyday consumer

{{00:04:32}}
thinks about these types of attacks.

{{00:04:34}}
What we've seen is pretty staggering
in that two thirds of all U.

{{00:04:41}}
S.

{{00:04:41}}
citizens believe that there
shouldn't be legal consequences

{{00:04:46}}
to, to this type of behavior.

{{00:04:47}}
We are seeing a very large distribution
of Gen Z that have taken out Buy Now

{{00:04:54}}
Pay Later loans with no intent to pay.

{{00:04:57}}
We've seen a very large number of
consumers in the 20 30 percent where their

{{00:05:03}}
friend has committed this type of fraud.

{{00:05:06}}
And there's been a number of
really eye opening statistics for

{{00:05:12}}
us, I think around particularly
some of the younger demographics.

{{00:05:16}}
And how comfortable they are in feeling
that potentially they're sticking it

{{00:05:22}}
to the man, that there's not actually a
victim on the other side, and so whether

{{00:05:26}}
it's in lying about money coming out of
an ATM, whether it's in chargeback fraud,

{{00:05:32}}
whether it's saying, hey, I didn't place
that bet, or make that investment it

{{00:05:37}}
seems that the survey results would tell
us that they don't believe that this is

{{00:05:41}}
actually a crime when in fact, of course,
they're stealing money from institution

{{00:05:47}}
after institution, and I really recommend
everyone look at the results we have

{{00:05:52}}
available on our website and and are
really one, it's very excited about the,

{{00:05:56}}
launch of the consortium and then two,
I think people will be, Really educated

{{00:06:01}}
and have their eyes wide open from how
the everyday consumer thinks about first

{{00:06:05}}
party fraud, at least here in the US.

{{00:06:08}}
It's shocking.

{{00:06:09}}
And the fact that they're reporting
that on the surveys really shows how

{{00:06:12}}
bold that has become, and fraudsters
in general have become bolder

{{00:06:16}}
over the last several years, too.

{{00:06:18}}
Definitely.

{{00:06:19}}
We're seeing everyone from, again
betting websites, investment

{{00:06:22}}
managers, to two sided marketplaces.

{{00:06:25}}
You're seeing folks getting very
comfortable with communicating that.

{{00:06:32}}
Money didn't come out of an ATM that
they didn't make that transaction,

{{00:06:35}}
that they didn't make that bet.

{{00:06:37}}
And so I think that our ability to work
as a network as a community, to be a

{{00:06:43}}
part of the solution, to really look at
who are these repeat abusers and work

{{00:06:48}}
together to assume the responsibility
to stop this type of kind of leakage.

{{00:06:54}}
from the financial services and
broader e commerce ecosystem.

{{00:06:59}}
And yeah, again, we're really,
excited about this launch, and we

{{00:07:03}}
view this as a really, important
solution to a rapidly growing problem.

{{00:07:07}}
Absolutely.

{{00:07:08}}
With that said, what advice do you
give to financial institutions that do

{{00:07:12}}
need to combat this first party fraud?

{{00:07:14}}
The biggest one is, hey, let's
work together to solve this.

{{00:07:16}}
Fraud is a massive network
ecosystem challenge.

{{00:07:20}}
Everyone's facing it.

{{00:07:22}}
We were talking to some folks here
at dinner last night and many of them

{{00:07:26}}
said, hey, let's win on our credit
models but let's work together on fraud.

{{00:07:31}}
And so this is a large network data
sharing where I think we have to come

{{00:07:34}}
together and again, I think there'll be
many solutions that that, that work to

{{00:07:38}}
solve different pockets of the ecosystem.

{{00:07:40}}
We believe that Socure can be a major,
player and a major force in this

{{00:07:44}}
given the momentum we already have
in the market, given the partners and

{{00:07:47}}
customers that we get to work with.

{{00:07:49}}
And yeah, my ask to the audience
and certainly banks and credit

{{00:07:52}}
unions and fintechs would be
please reach out to SoQure and

{{00:07:56}}
let's build a solution together.

{{00:07:59}}
Would welcome the opportunity to do it.

{{00:08:01}}
There you have it.

{{00:08:02}}
Johnny, every time I see you, every new
year, you've got something big coming out.

{{00:08:05}}
What's your wishlist for 2024?

{{00:08:08}}
Look we have a, an amazing team at Secure.

{{00:08:12}}
We rapidly, innovate and certainly
fraud is a never NN never ceasing

{{00:08:19}}
ghosts that we are chasing.

{{00:08:21}}
And I think, the biggest thing for us is.

{{00:08:25}}
Pushing the envelope around the usage
of AI we were really I think early

{{00:08:32}}
in machine learning and AI and its
application to identity and fraud.

{{00:08:36}}
And so really pushing the envelope
around how we think about stopping

{{00:08:42}}
scripted bot attacks, how we think about
stopping generative images, how do we

{{00:08:45}}
think about stopping deepfake injections
at a very, large and repeatable scale.

{{00:08:50}}
Candidly, not just in financial
services, but as we really have,

{{00:08:54}}
expanded quickly in gaming.

{{00:08:56}}
We're now deployed in pretty
much all of the major states and

{{00:09:00}}
a number of federal agencies.

{{00:09:01}}
And so this kind of ability to,
utilize really bleeding edge AI.

{{00:09:08}}
Whether it be in large length models
or transformer models or, lots of other

{{00:09:12}}
kind of new foundational AI models
pushing the envelope around what is

{{00:09:18}}
possible in identity verification and
fraud prevention is probably the thing

{{00:09:22}}
I'm most excited about and certainly
folks will hear more and more about

{{00:09:25}}
where and how Socure is really leading
I think the pack in our ability to

{{00:09:32}}
using cutting edge AI and cutting edge
analytics to solve some of these really

{{00:09:36}}
Systemic and endemic fraud problems,
and yeah, I look forward to talking

{{00:09:44}}
further about our successes in the year.

{{00:09:46}}
I like it.

{{00:09:47}}
There you have it.

{{00:09:48}}
It's been nice talking with you.

{{00:09:49}}
Thanks for joining us.

{{00:09:50}}
Thank you so much.

Hi, I'm Heather Sugg reporting
from Money 20/20 USA.

Today, I am happy to share that we
have Johnny Ayres with us from Socure.

We are going to be talking about
the ever present topic of fraud,

Johnny, you and Socure have been known
for third party fraud and synthetic

ID fraud, and you have launched a
new product for first party fraud.

Today we launch our Sigma Identity
Fraud solution, specifically

This challenge is something that's
pervasive across all digital banks,

financial services, merchants, where
folks are unfortunately repeat abusing

account by account to a tune of almost
a hundred billion dollars in losses.

And so we have developed a
consortium that is pulling together

With about 45 percent overlap between
accounts to contribute their known bad

their repeat abuser their closed account
data, which is gonna enable us to stop

first party fraud at scale and basically
take all the amazing analytics, the

the amazing data science talent that
we have in solving KYC and solving

identity fraud and synthetic fraud
and apply it to this new, very rapidly

One of the things we all know about
fraud is that it takes a village,

and I understand that what you're
doing is building a consortium

Can you tell us how you're
doing that and how it will look?

So the consortium approach is
something we've really taken to how

Our identity fraud, our synthetic
fraud, we have the largest database of

known good and known bad identities,
so a tune of a couple billion outcomes.

When we think about first party
fraud this is really a, about kind

of behavioral signals and repeat
behaviors of consumers that are

moving institution, toin institution
with their own identities, with an

We've seen that, whether it's in a
depository account or a line about money

account coming outta an ATM or even
folks that have no intent to ever repay

The ability to look at how these
consumers are behaving at scale,

how these consumers are abusing
and attacking a lot of consumer

regulations is, enabling us a level
of visibility to stop these attackers.

Maybe they hit one or two
institutions, but they're not

And the scale of the network that
we're launching with and certainly

the partners that we have, we're
really excited about attacking this.

This problem that unfortunately has such
negative ramifications on good consumers

because so many protections and blockers
are having to be put in front of them to

So we're really excited about the,
Socure Consortium and our ability to

pull together these, really amazing
partners and really launch this in

something we believe is going to get
really massive scale and have a put

a big dent in this hundred billion
dollar first party fraud problem.

Can you share more about some of
the partners that are involved,

One of the things at SoQia that we've had
the luxury and benefit from building is

we have pretty much every major consumer
FinTech, almost every major bank, to the

tune of about 2, 000 customers across
really every consumer based vertical.

And specifically for this launch
we've initially focused on a

number of the largest digital
bank and financial institutions.

Partners like Green Dot, SoFi, Public,
IngoMoney and a number of other tier one

partners of ours to enable us to look
at the overlap across these customers.

We see 45 percent overlap across these
different providers, and we do see...

Unfortunately individuals hopping
institution to institution, committing

fraud one after another And we're very,
fortunate to get to, to co innovate to

co invest and co build with a number
of these amazing partners of ours, and

already have lined up and, have folks
contributing, including the largest buy

now, pay later providers, the largest
investment manager platforms and so

we, believe we're really just just
getting started here with this launch.

Now one of the areas I'm excited to
dive into with you is the research

So as a part of the consortium
launch, we also launched our what

we believe to be the largest first
party fraud survey results and

analysis on first party fraud and how
Americans and your everyday consumer

What we've seen is pretty staggering
in that two thirds of all U.

citizens believe that there
shouldn't be legal consequences

We are seeing a very large distribution
of Gen Z that have taken out Buy Now

We've seen a very large number of
consumers in the 20 30 percent where their

And there's been a number of
really eye opening statistics for

us, I think around particularly
some of the younger demographics.

And how comfortable they are in feeling
that potentially they're sticking it

to the man, that there's not actually a
victim on the other side, and so whether

it's in lying about money coming out of
an ATM, whether it's in chargeback fraud,

whether it's saying, hey, I didn't place
that bet, or make that investment it

seems that the survey results would tell
us that they don't believe that this is

actually a crime when in fact, of course,
they're stealing money from institution

after institution, and I really recommend
everyone look at the results we have

available on our website and and are
really one, it's very excited about the,

launch of the consortium and then two,
I think people will be, Really educated

and have their eyes wide open from how
the everyday consumer thinks about first

And the fact that they're reporting
that on the surveys really shows how

FinTech Futures

Expert Insight

At the Money20/20 USA 2023 conference in Las Vegas, FinTech Futures sat down with Johnny Ayers, founder and CEO of Socure, to discuss the launch of the company’s Sigma Identity Fraud solution and how the offering can help firms reduce the risk of first-party fraud.