Name: The Kondo method: Tidy up your content
Uploaded: 2022-09-28T16:48:16.528Z
Duration: 498.16
Description: What if you organised your marketing content in the same way you organise your personal possessions? Karen Hesse is on a mission to organise content chaos and says everything starts with a good audit - or rather, a Marie Kondo-style audit!

Karen Hesse_part 1_v3.mp4

Karen Hesse_part 1_v2.vtt

English

{{00:00:00}}
Karen: So it's a slight, you know, interpretation,
but I think it's one that really works.

{{00:00:04}}
Jordan: Yeah.

{{00:00:04}}
Karen: And I think the joy criteria really is
about setting that framework to help us make good

{{00:00:11}}
decisions about where we should focus our efforts.

{{00:00:24}}
Jordan: So, you know, we've all heard of Marie
Kondo method and how it helps keep your home tidy.

{{00:00:31}}
So you're talking, you know, here
at Content Marketing World about

{{00:00:35}}
the art of kondo-ing content.

{{00:00:37}}
Can you tell us exactly what
it means to kondo your content?

{{00:00:40}}
Karen: Yeah.

{{00:00:40}}
So, I mean, first to say I love Marie Kondo.

{{00:00:45}}
She's got that great show on Netflix.

{{00:00:47}}
I mean, I just love the idea of tidying.

{{00:00:49}}
I think, you know, it's a psychological
boost to us all to do that, and

{{00:00:53}}
I'm a person that would do that.

{{00:00:54}}
So I love the method and I think, you know, like
if we just think a little bit about what she

{{00:01:00}}
actually does, like what she does is she goes
into someone's home and she essentially takes

{{00:01:05}}
all their stuff and puts it in the middle of
the floor, sorting by category, not by location.

{{00:01:13}}
And it's a process of going through everything
and holding it up and going: Does this spark joy?

{{00:01:19}}
And the answer to that then helps you to
kind of manage your stuff and when I started

{{00:01:24}}
looking at this, the first thing I knew was
that, you know, I need less stuff or I need

{{00:01:30}}
a bigger room because by the time I'd put
everything in the middle of the room and go

{{00:01:33}}
through all this process, you know, like...

{{00:01:35}}
that was kind of, you know, it made me
realize where I'm at and what I have.

{{00:01:41}}
I think actually, for us, when we think
about content chaos, because there really

{{00:01:47}}
is an incredible problem with content
chaos and content quality now in the world.

{{00:01:52}}
And the way to start to deal with that
is to actually Kondo your content chaos

{{00:01:58}}
and we do that by creating an audit.

{{00:02:01}}
By running an audit.

{{00:02:03}}
Because what we look at, what we're looking
for is this single source of content truth.

{{00:02:07}}
So essentially what a content audit is,
is we are putting all our content in the

{{00:02:11}}
middle of the room and we're looking at it
and going, does this spark joy, and we're

{{00:02:16}}
looking at what content should we keep?

{{00:02:18}}
What content is performing really well?

{{00:02:21}}
What content needs mending
as she would describe it.

{{00:02:25}}
The content that can be improved.

{{00:02:27}}
And, you know what, what content do we jettison?

{{00:02:30}}
In the case of me, you know, what am I gonna put
into a black bag and donate to a charity shop.

{{00:02:37}}
So that's pretty much it.

{{00:02:38}}
I mean, you know, we believe that audit is the
first stage to real digital transformation and

{{00:02:45}}
also the beginning of sorting out your chaos.

{{00:02:49}}
From that point, then, once you've done
an audit and you have that single source

{{00:02:53}}
of your content inventory truth, then
you can make really informed decisions.

{{00:02:57}}
So that's pretty much how it is.

{{00:02:59}}
Yeah.

{{00:03:00}}
Jordan: Why should organizations
condo their content?

{{00:03:03}}
Karen: I think we have a problem, as I said.

{{00:03:05}}
And what we see is, in content
marketing, huge lack of strategy.

{{00:03:11}}
It has become a lot about doing or doing content.

{{00:03:16}}
We're making content and often the content
department becomes the I-need-to-have department.

{{00:03:23}}
I need a blog.

{{00:03:24}}
I need a video.

{{00:03:25}}
I need a suite of podcasts
or whatever it might be.

{{00:03:29}}
And I think really the process of auditing
your content allows you to build a framework

{{00:03:36}}
around what you're gonna say no to.

{{00:03:38}}
Because I think a lot of the issue that content
marketing people have is that they're getting

{{00:03:42}}
demands from all over their organization
and many times they're not able to say

{{00:03:47}}
no because there's no framework for that.

{{00:03:49}}
So I think it's about showing what works
well and building your inventory around

{{00:03:56}}
that and, you know, being focused more
on the outcomes and not on the outputs.

{{00:04:03}}
Jordan: So when we talk about, you know, content
is joy the goal or is it, you know, traffic?

{{00:04:12}}
Or is there a mixture of the two?

{{00:04:14}}
Karen: Well, it depends on how you phrase joy.

{{00:04:19}}
So what we've done is, you know, take inspiration
for Marie Kondo, we've set the 256 joy criteria.

{{00:04:27}}
And so when we're working through
the audit process, we're asking

{{00:04:30}}
ourselves: does this spark joy?

{{00:04:33}}
And joy in terms of content marketing is:
does this content spark joy for your customer?

{{00:04:40}}
Okay.

{{00:04:41}}
Is it answering the questions they have?

{{00:04:43}}
Does it spark joy for you as a content creator?

{{00:04:46}}
I don't think anyone will show up to their
job and go - Oh, you know, I think I'm gonna

{{00:04:51}}
create some really mediocre content today.

{{00:04:53}}
Like, we just don't do that.

{{00:04:54}}
Yeah.

{{00:04:54}}
So is the content going to spark
joy for you, for your team?

{{00:04:58}}
Does it spark joy for your boss?

{{00:05:00}}
So that means it's content that delivers an ROI.

{{00:05:03}}
So there's a reason to spend on that.

{{00:05:06}}
So there's a number.

{{00:05:06}}
Does it spark joy for Google?

{{00:05:08}}
Is google going to rate this
content and think, Oh yeah, great.

{{00:05:11}}
You know, that's, we're gonna rank that content.

{{00:05:14}}
It's answering the questions that people have.

{{00:05:16}}
Does it spark joy for the governance department?

{{00:05:18}}
Does it spark joy for, you
know, your stakeholders?

{{00:05:21}}
So we look at joy in that way to focuses on
creating that content that does spark joy.

{{00:05:29}}
Jordan: And how can brands go about
that process of kondo-ing content?

{{00:05:33}}
Karen: Well, I think, I mean, the starting
point, like I said, is doing that audit

{{00:05:37}}
and, you know, there's work in that.

{{00:05:40}}
It depends on how big your website is, of course.

{{00:05:43}}
Like some brands may have a
smaller kind of content footprint.

{{00:05:46}}
They might have 500 pages potentially.

{{00:05:49}}
That may be something they can do in-house.

{{00:05:51}}
I think if you have a site size that is
up to maybe 5,000 pages, it's probably

{{00:05:57}}
doable within your own organization.

{{00:06:00}}
Bigger than that, you may want to look
at actually getting an alternative agency

{{00:06:04}}
or whatever in to help you with that.

{{00:06:06}}
But I think there's a real value in the
team that are responsible for creating the

{{00:06:10}}
content to actually do the audit themselves.

{{00:06:13}}
Cause there's so many insights
that come through that process.

{{00:06:17}}
So we, we do the audit and we've already set the
criteria of what good looks like in that audit.

{{00:06:23}}
And it, it may be based around, you know,
page traffic, rank, you know, there's a number

{{00:06:30}}
of different criteria that we would use.

{{00:06:32}}
And then from that we have a, it's an automated
spreadsheet piece so that is, actually, a

{{00:06:39}}
lot of the heavy lifting is already done.

{{00:06:41}}
And then from that we start
a content mapping process.

{{00:06:45}}
So it's, it's a whole process from end to end.

{{00:06:47}}
But I suppose if your inventory isn't
really, very large to begin with,

{{00:06:53}}
it's something that can be done in...

{{00:06:55}}
could be a day.

{{00:06:56}}
Might be a week, you know?

{{00:06:58}}
And I think what's important
is then you know what you have.

{{00:07:01}}
I think a lot of companies
don't know what they have.

{{00:07:04}}
Like it's a bit like me if I go and do the
Mary Kondo process myself, which I did,

{{00:07:10}}
and then I discovered all these things in
my wardrobe that still had the tags on.

{{00:07:13}}
I never even wore them.

{{00:07:15}}
And I, you know, I found out that I
had kind of five like black dresses.

{{00:07:19}}
You know, that go pretty much
the same length, you know?

{{00:07:22}}
And so it's a little bit like that when
you do the process, you know, you're,

{{00:07:26}}
you're kind of finding like things that
just have, have no use, have no traffic.

{{00:07:31}}
They've been hanging in your kind
of content wardrobe all this time.

{{00:07:34}}
You know?

{{00:07:34}}
Whereas meanwhile, you're missing
out on something else that would

{{00:07:37}}
deserve your attention and investment.

{{00:07:39}}
So yeah, it's kind of just a, it's an
interesting way to frame it, I think, because

{{00:07:44}}
I think sometimes when you start talking
about audits to content people who are kind

{{00:07:47}}
of often creative people, you know, your
eyes are lazying over, you're like, Oh no,

{{00:07:52}}
seriously do we have to talk about audits?

{{00:07:55}}
You know?

{{00:07:55}}
So it's just a nicer way to frame it and
I think people can really relate to that.

{{00:07:59}}
Jordan: Yeah.

{{00:08:00}}
Karen: Because like we all wanna
do joyful things in our work.

{{00:08:03}}
Jordan: Definitely.

{{00:08:03}}
Karen: You know, so, um, if it helps
those businesses, you know, get  and

{{00:08:08}}
just be better at what they're doing.

{{00:08:10}}
I think that's the point.

Karen: So it's a slight, you know, interpretation,
but I think it's one that really works.

Karen: And I think the joy criteria really is
about setting that framework to help us make good

decisions about where we should focus our efforts.

Jordan: So, you know, we've all heard of Marie
Kondo method and how it helps keep your home tidy.

So you're talking, you know, here
at Content Marketing World about

Can you tell us exactly what
it means to kondo your content?

So, I mean, first to say I love Marie Kondo.

I think, you know, it's a psychological
boost to us all to do that, and

So I love the method and I think, you know, like
if we just think a little bit about what she

actually does, like what she does is she goes
into someone's home and she essentially takes

all their stuff and puts it in the middle of
the floor, sorting by category, not by location.

And it's a process of going through everything
and holding it up and going: Does this spark joy?

And the answer to that then helps you to
kind of manage your stuff and when I started

looking at this, the first thing I knew was
that, you know, I need less stuff or I need

a bigger room because by the time I'd put
everything in the middle of the room and go

through all this process, you know, like...

that was kind of, you know, it made me
realize where I'm at and what I have.

I think actually, for us, when we think
about content chaos, because there really

is an incredible problem with content
chaos and content quality now in the world.

And the way to start to deal with that
is to actually Kondo your content chaos

Because what we look at, what we're looking
for is this single source of content truth.

So essentially what a content audit is,
is we are putting all our content in the

middle of the room and we're looking at it
and going, does this spark joy, and we're

What content needs mending
as she would describe it.

And, you know what, what content do we jettison?

In the case of me, you know, what am I gonna put
into a black bag and donate to a charity shop.

I mean, you know, we believe that audit is the
first stage to real digital transformation and

also the beginning of sorting out your chaos.

From that point, then, once you've done
an audit and you have that single source

of your content inventory truth, then
you can make really informed decisions.

Jordan: Why should organizations
condo their content?

Karen: I think we have a problem, as I said.

And what we see is, in content
marketing, huge lack of strategy.

It has become a lot about doing or doing content.

We're making content and often the content
department becomes the I-need-to-have department.

I need a suite of podcasts
or whatever it might be.

And I think really the process of auditing
your content allows you to build a framework

Because I think a lot of the issue that content
marketing people have is that they're getting

demands from all over their organization
and many times they're not able to say

no because there's no framework for that.

So I think it's about showing what works
well and building your inventory around

that and, you know, being focused more
on the outcomes and not on the outputs.

Jordan: So when we talk about, you know, content
is joy the goal or is it, you know, traffic?

Karen: Well, it depends on how you phrase joy.

So what we've done is, you know, take inspiration
for Marie Kondo, we've set the 256 joy criteria.

And so when we're working through
the audit process, we're asking

And joy in terms of content marketing is:
does this content spark joy for your customer?

Does it spark joy for you as a content creator?

I don't think anyone will show up to their
job and go - Oh, you know, I think I'm gonna

create some really mediocre content today.

So is the content going to spark
joy for you, for your team?

So that means it's content that delivers an ROI.

Is google going to rate this
content and think, Oh yeah, great.

You know, that's, we're gonna rank that content.

It's answering the questions that people have.

Does it spark joy for the governance department?

Does it spark joy for, you
know, your stakeholders?

So we look at joy in that way to focuses on
creating that content that does spark joy.

Jordan: And how can brands go about
that process of kondo-ing content?

Karen: Well, I think, I mean, the starting
point, like I said, is doing that audit

It depends on how big your website is, of course.

Like some brands may have a
smaller kind of content footprint.

That may be something they can do in-house.

I think if you have a site size that is
up to maybe 5,000 pages, it's probably

Bigger than that, you may want to look
at actually getting an alternative agency

But I think there's a real value in the
team that are responsible for creating the

content to actually do the audit themselves.

Cause there's so many insights
that come through that process.

So we, we do the audit and we've already set the
criteria of what good looks like in that audit.

Best Practice

What if you organised your marketing content in the same way you organise your personal possessions? Karen Hesse is on a mission to organise content chaos and says everything starts with a good audit - or rather, a Marie Kondo-style audit!

Content Management

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Karen Hesse

Founder and CEO

Content chaos means we're not focussing on the content that really gets engagement. See how Hesse prioritises content that sparks joy! 

'Kondo' your content

Making content requires time and resources, but a good framework can reduce unnecessary work. Discover how Hesse's method applies here.

Why should organisations do it?

Content that sparks joy means a higher return on investment. But how can we identify the right type of content to maintain?

What is the joy we are looking for in content?

Everything starts with an audit. See how big or small companies can start thinking about Kondo'ng their content inventory.